Skronk wrote:

DrAwkward wrote:

Skronk wrote:

Colonel Panic wrote:Starbuck's is everywhere but that doesn't stop me from buying my coffee from an independent coffee shop (Perfect Cup on Leland and Damen) every morning on my way to catch the train.

You realize these stores are fading away because of Starbucks, right?

On Brady Street in Milwaukee, there are a pair of independent coffee shops doing just fine down the street from the Starbucks on the corner of Brady and Farwell. Hell, they've co-existed for years and years now.

A lot of people don't want to see these places fold, so they make an effort to buy coffee from independent coffeehouses.

Well, yeah. There are enough coffee drinkers in Milwaukee that those who don't care about indies or, ya know, taste (i'm assuming--i fucking can't stand coffee at all) go to Starbucks, and those who care about supporting the indies go to the indies. And yet, they all thrive. That's my point. They're serving two different sets of target markets.

If this is able to happen in fucking Milwaukee, i don't see how there could be a problem in much larger cities.

I hate those Frappuccinos. Waaaay too sweet for my taste.

I've never tasted Starbucks. Can't be worse than Nescafe or Dow Egberts.

Skronk wrote: A lot of people don't want to see these places fold, so they make an effort to buy coffee from independent coffeehouses.

I haven't been to Brady Street in a few years, but Brewed Awakenings had good coffee and food, a layout that made the main room social and the other rooms more intimate, and the people/flyers on the walls/music gave a sense of that particular subculture in Milwaukee. So the place has more going for it, or used to, than just how it compares to a franchise.

All of these are why also I love the Bourgeois Pig in Chicago. Now, Metropolis in Edgewater -- I love the idea of the place, but when I finally went there I spent five bucks on an aztec chicken soup that was all aztec and no chicken.

Supporting a bad independent coffeehouse/bookstore/diner/label out of pity is just enabling.

I should also fully disclose that the guy who most recently joined our band is a manager at a Starbucks in town here, and so far, they've given him no grief whatsoever about asking to be scheduled off for weekend mini-tours and such. Thusly, Starbucks is a-ok by me so far.

making an album for starbucks is so not indie that it's indie.

just like it's indie to not like the minutemen.

steve wrote:

alex maiolo wrote:

steve wrote:Douchebags...
...douchebags

But aren't there much worse douchebags in the world? Record labels themselves, even many of the so-called independents?

I guess you just need to decide where our douche threshhold ought to lie.

I'm still deciding whether or not I would go see a band called Douche Threshold.

While I'm chewing on that I'll say that each person should decide where their DT is. We do that every day.
For me:
Wal Mart - never
Domino's Pizza - never
CostCo - only when I have no other option, but they are no Wal Mart
Starbucks - if there's no local roaster I have no probem with it at all.

Isn't there a difference between you (for example) wanting to release music on the Starbucks label and it being pretty indisputable that it's a shitty move across the board? Meaning a Wal Mart label release would be a shitty move in all of our eyes, I think. You mentioned that you will buy a cup of Starbucks from time to time, so you seem to not mind them as a company, so why is it bad for SY, to align with them? I don't think "traditional models" is a good reason and I doubt you'd give that as one.

There's a difference between being on the Halliburton label and selling your record at Starbucks, right? And if the latter is not the worst thing in the world, even if not all bands would want to do it, then why would it merrit a "Fuck Sonic Youth for doing that" response, which is what this thread is about. That's pretty extreme and I think it's best left for the more evil corporations.

Can you make a list for me, because on my list I put Starbucks on the side of where I don't want them releasing my band's records, and I think it's pretty gross for any band to do so.

Your "trench of shit" essay literally changed the way I thought about the industry overnight. It prompted me get involved in music related causes instantly. I like your music a lot, but it's had almost no influence on how I play guitar. The essay, on the other hand, kicked me in the ass and got me involved.

Of the many things I took from it, "there are other ways to get your music out" was one of them. I certainly wouldn't say Starbucks is the answer, but it's an answer if band x feels OK about it. The deal is a hell of a lot sweeter than any major record contract that I know of, and it represents a way to give labels which have traditionally acted in bad faith the cold shoulder. These new deals tend to be a lot more fair for the artist than the traditional (there's that word again) recoupables/payola/points/blah blah model.

There's no way I could make a list for you, or anyone else. All I'm saying is the music community should probably concentrate it's resources on calling out the really evil entities instead of sending a "fuck you" letter to a band that's been a pretty positive force in music, just because they did this unconventional deal with a company many of us, you included, aren't so offended by that we withold our patronage from them.

-A

kerble wrote:My family owns and operates a citgo out in the sw burbs. We're not weird corporate drones, we're a friendly bunch of people. I play guitar when I work there. I lug in my amp and my guitar and I fucking wail. It's still part of a corporation, but who can tell?

and we sell this:



I know I posted this in the other thread, but it seems funnier here.

Flaneur wrote:I haven't been to Brady Street in a few years, but Brewed Awakenings had good coffee and food, a good layout that made the main room social and the other rooms more intimate, and the people/flyers on the walls/music gave a sense of that particular subculture in Milwaukee.

Supporting a bad independent coffeehouse/bookstore/diner out of pity is just enabling.

Totally, and that's still the case at Brewed Awakenings. Heck, i wouldn't be surprised if there were people who drove out of their way to Fuel in Riverwest from other parts of town to avoid Starbucks, and out of a sense of quality rather than just pity for the indies.

When my ex first moved to Gainesville for school, she asked me to bring along Fuel coffee whenever i'd visit because it was better than Starbucks, and because, ya know, it tasted like home.