Linus Van Pelt wrote:
I don't believe my judgment is clouded by passionate Straight-Edge beliefs. I don't really consider myself straight-edge, really. I'm not a vegan, not 100% strict in my vegetarianism, not 100% strict in my non-drinking, and didn't exactly conform to sxe standards during my premarital sex life. I simply believe that, yes, your body has parts that are made to filter and neutralize the various toxins it takes in, including alcohol, but no, it can not do that without taking damage. Maybe I am wrong, but I think I am right. If I am right, then there is evidence backing me up, but right now I don't have the time or inclination to look it up. If you are right, and you present some evidence, I do have the time and inclination to take a look at it! I'm always happy to find out I'm wrong about something!

Again I wasn't really trying to be mean. It's just "way-back-when" when I was Straight-Edge in the 1990s all the people I knew involved were strict as hell. I'm sure there is no "rule book", but movements like this tend to be lead by the people with the purest ideals. When I was involved, you weren't Straight Edge just by not drinking and smoking.

It's like how I laugh if someone says, "I'm a vegetarian", but eats fish and/or chicken. Um, “no you are not.”

As far as the liver goes, you'll be happy to know -and if there is anyone medical out there please chip in-, that a small amount of booze with food will not damage the organ. Because the function of the liver is to cleanse the body of toxins. It would hardly work very well if it was damaged every time it preformed the function it has evolved to do... would it now?

Linus Van Pelt wrote:

Tom wrote:I'm a suicide warrior in a battledress... a battle dress.

"Suicide" is the right word, only yours won't be painless.

I could easily tear the dress off of Tom... the battle dress.

I'm so glad your avatar's changed.

Tom wrote:That was mean.

You're right. If anyone from The Minor Fall is reading this: I'm sorry I didn't like your band. I hope you can forgive me.

Gramsci wrote:a small amount of booze with food will not damage the organ. Because the function of the liver is to cleanse the body of toxins. It would hardly work very well if it was damaged every time it preformed the function it has evolved to do... would it now?

I'm not buying this argument at all. Stuff wears out doing the things it was designed/evolved to do all the time. Cars are designed to be driven, but a car with 100,000 miles on it is probably not in as great shape as a brand new one. Toothbrushes are designed to brush teeth, but you're supposed to get a new one twice a year. To say that a small amount of booze will not damage the liver may be true (I don't believe it, but I'm not ruling it out), but to say that it must be true - because things don't become damaged in the course of performing their function - is clearly false.

Night Tools is a med student - does he still read/post up in this piece? What the hell - 95% of my customers are med students or doctors. I will ask somebody today.

Again I wasn't really trying to be mean.

I didn't think you were!

Cars and toothbrushes don't have cells that replace themselves.

Okay, I found this.

According to this, it seems that drinking 1 to 6 alcoholic beverages per week actually is better for your liver than not drinking at all! On the other hand, Gramsci's vaunted Italians, "who regularly drank with or without food at mealtimes, displayed an accumulative risk of developing liver damage." So, if this is right, then, yes, drinking in moderation is not bad for your liver - but drinking daily doesn't count as "in moderation."

In conclusion, I would not see a band called "Gramsci's Vaunted Italians."

I'd say this is about the crux of it. Small amounts of alcohol, especially red wine has a benefit that outweighs any liver damage, which may occur, but not necessarily will occur.

How’s that?

I am inspired by what I have learnt on this thread to be more of a Mediterranean drinker; it sounds good.

Chapter Two wrote:I am inspired by what I have learnt on this thread to be more of a Mediterranean drinker; it sounds good.

Red wine with food is all good.

Also red wine has another trick that will help you drink less... if you get a solid hangover from red wine you'll never want to drink again.

Gramsci wrote:I'd say this is about the crux of it. Small amounts of alcohol, especially red wine has a benefit that outweighs any liver damage, which may occur, but not necessarily will occur.

How’s that?

I don't know, it seems to be weighing all the benefits of red wine against one of the drawbacks. If you want to weigh pros and cons, you should weigh all of them, and the analysis is going to come out different for each person. I would not disagree that a small amount of alcohol, especially red wine, is "worth it" for some people. But I think that it has enough cons to it that, depending on what weight you give them, they outweigh the pros, for other people. If your statement above is confined only to the hepatic and cardiovascular effects of drinking, then, yes, I would agree with it - in fact, I'd say it doesn't go far enough.

Linus Van Pelt wrote:

Tom wrote:That was mean.

You're right. If anyone from The Minor Fall is reading this: I'm sorry I didn't like your band. I hope you can forgive me.

I meant it was mean to me.