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Rick Reuben wrote:

marsupialized wrote:when we die it just goes black and that's that.

You're placing yourself inside the dying person, not observing the state of death from the outside. That's speculation. It is impossible to prove anything about an afterlife. Even what you think is a 'scientific' view is a hypothesis that cannot be verified.

I'm going to work. I think we've both made our points, but if you want me to go over the rest of your reply, I will later. Would you at least agree that there are many good people in all religions, including Islam, and agree that making religious membership alone a reason to 'despise' someone is bad policy?

People have been technically dead, and brought back. I agree with himconclusion, mostly because I don't see any good reason to believe anything different.

I would certainly agree that there are good people in all faiths, and certainly in the absence of faith as well, but this has not been enough to sway me from my antitheistic position that the world would be a better place without any of it. One more way to divide people, and the consequences of that ring thru the ages.

Marsupialized wrote:

Rick Reuben wrote:Would you at least agree that there are many good people in all religions, including Islam, and agree that making religious membership alone a reason to 'despise' someone is bad policy?

No, I woudn't. By averages I think it's a fine policy.

Even Jedi?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/10/09 ... cognition/

Marsupialized wrote:I want our species to stop fighting and progress.

In forums, too?

Marsupialized wrote:

Rick Reuben wrote:Would you at least agree that there are many good people in all religions, including Islam, and agree that making religious membership alone a reason to 'despise' someone is bad policy?

No, I woudn't. By averages I think it's a fine policy.

I want our species to stop fighting and progress. They are part of the problem, no matter how nice they are.

Now look what you've gone and done...

jurgis rudkus wrote:

Marsupialized wrote:I want our species to stop fighting and progress.

In forums, too?

God that polar bear cracks me up every time.

'Hey guys!'

I love it

Marsupialized wrote:God that polar bear cracks me up every time.

'Hey guys!'

I love it

"I want our species to stop fighting and progress."

What? This is from a dude who slugged a guy over some shitty driving!

Rick Reuben wrote:

Johnny 13 wrote:People have been technically dead, and brought back.

Yeah, and a lot of them have said that they saw lights and entrances and even people waiting for them. Are you going to throw that testimony out, and only believe the people who said they saw blackness?

Really, if they say they 'saw' anything, then they may not have been dead at all.

I just figure that is what happens when the brain dies, and vision ability starts to fade. Who you gonna believe, me, or some guy who can't even stay alive all the time? ^_^

Rick Reuben wrote:

Johnny 13 wrote:I just figure that is what happens when the brain dies, and vision ability starts to fade.

But would you not agree that if a person has memories of the dying process, he never experienced death? Do you think people have seen true death and lived to tell about it? Seems to me that if they have tales to tell, they never fully entered true death.

Interesting, I suppose it depends upon the manner of death. A spiritual belief might have a notion that death is a veil, and is only permeable from one direction, then I would have to agree.

I don't think that tho. I think of the body as a machine, that under certain circumstances can be turned off (meeting the full criteria of death), and returned to a self sustaining condition. In that period where the body 'dies', it seems natural to me that you would get tunnel vision, or enter a euphoric state. Those are natural body reactions that can be replicated. It is also why so many people die of auto erotic asphyxiation.

Not fully appropriate, but this link is a fun read. I could not find the one I really wanted.
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_262.html

Rick Reuben wrote:

Johnny 13 wrote:People have been technically dead, and brought back.

Yeah, and a lot of them have said that they saw lights and entrances and even people waiting for them. Are you going to throw that testimony out, and only believe the people who said they saw blackness?

Really, if they say they 'saw' anything, then they may not have been dead at all.

When I was 9 years old, I was technically dead for a few minutes. I didn't see anything. No light, no people waiting for me, nothing. All I felt was no pain while I was gone. That's my experience and I kind a believe what I saw which was nothing.

If anybody is going to push the opposite, they have to prove it. So far nobody has. It is easier to hope for a better afterlife than to actually be a descent person while we're still around here.