losthighway wrote: Wed May 01, 2024 9:52 pm Unobserved by me (and probably most speakers) in English we have two sounds. The voiced th: that, those, these. And the unvoiced th: think, thistle, thief.

Fascinating that this would go unnoticed because to me the difference was always immediately apparent. And Swedish doesn't even have those sounds!

Could be that's why, that they're noticeably distinct because they're new relative to what I know. But it feels like a native speaker should intuitively know distinctions that a non-native has to be taught. If you don't know the language at all you can't even hear distinctions that are obvious to someone who does. If you've tried teaching someone a word or phrase and there's some part they have trouble with, you can keep repeating it and them repeating after and they never get there, making the same error each time.

One example I just thought of though: In Mandarin there is phonemic distinction between aspirated and unaspirated consonants. This seemed new to me when I encountered the language, and something I had to take special note of. But then through some study I found out these different sounds exist in Swedish too - par /pʰɑːr/ 'pair' vs. spara /spɑːra/ 'to save' ; tal /tʰɑːl/ 'speech' vs. Stalin /stɑːlɪn/ .

I hadn't noticed the distinction until then, and didn't recognize these as different sounds (in actual speech the degree of distinction probably varies, esp since the distinction is not phonemic). I wasn't taught them in school, which I was however with the voiced-unvoiced 'th' sound - I seem to remember them emphasizing this difference. I assume this was not the case for you?

kokorodoko wrote: Mon May 06, 2024 5:57 pm
I hadn't noticed the distinction until then, and didn't recognize these as different sounds (in actual speech the degree of distinction probably varies, esp since the distinction is not phonemic). I wasn't taught them in school, which I was however with the voiced-unvoiced 'th' sound - I seem to remember them emphasizing this difference. I assume this was not the case for you?

My schooling experience was largely impacted by the trend in the 80's and 90's in American public schools known as the whole language movement. The idea was that reading, writing and speaking were developed by young minds' interaction with meaningful text (story telling) and the impulse to communicate ideas (kind of a constructivist, Piaget thing). Our primary school had no real phonics instruction past the basic vowel consonant stuff they give you at ages 5-6 to sound things out. We learned by doing unless we were put in special education. This turns out to be well meaning and ignorant. A sizable chunk of kids don't learn to read competently without more long term systematic instruction.

So speech idiosyncrasies like this were not ever going to be a topic. Many American English speakers operate with a strictly intuitive understanding of how their language works. I've had countless self-taught corrections on basic grammar errors during and after college and I was a literature/ writing major. This might also be me as a poor student.

I disagree with APA that there should be consistent signs of conduct disorder before the age of 15 to diagnose antisocial personality disorder. I think that most cluster B disorders have severe trauma at the root and that late-onset antisocial personality disorder is much more common than people think.

On a related note, I think one of coworkers has strong histrionic traits with little hints of antisocial ones. I enjoy her company and friendship, but I am going to be very cautious...

Every single time I'm on a train that stops at Belmont I think of this Hammer Party insert. Every. Fucking. Time.

rsmurphy wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 11:13 pm Every single time I'm on a train that stops at Belmont I think of this Hammer Party insert. Every. Fucking. Time.

And now I will

Just got the shipping notification from Touch & Go.. my copy of To All Trains is on its way.

The last track on the album is "I Don't Fear Hell".

This continues to feel like a cruel joke.

Whenever I see someone posting about their ADHD it's like reading my own inner monologue.

That Barbara Crampton might actually be a vampire.

What if Ken Wilber and Wilford Brimley had teamed up to develop an integral approach to treating diabetes?

Sharing memories over the last week is understandable, even healing. But nostalgia is a dangerous space to live in. After a friend commented that it feels like "an end of an era" it struck me that maybe I was more stuck in 'that' era than I realized these past 4-5 years. I don't want to be in "you had to be there" mode for the rest of my life. Keep rowing.... row.

(the irony of quoting an 18 year old song.. yeah yeah)