Premier Rock Forum

aaron wrote:i do not think there is anything timeless, natural, or genuine about the "authenticity" you hear on an AC/DC record, but that it is a social construction tied to a particular set of historical, cultural, and economic circumstances, along the lines of what has been called "blackness" (soul), "jewishness" (melancholy), masculinity/femininity, etc. it is a relatively recent invention.


i do not think authorial intentions count for much--perhaps they are on par with the purchase price--and i believe that our response to a work of art is always going to tell us (and others) more about ourselves than the work itself.

I agree with aaron that everyone’s tastes are always already embedded in a field of cultural, economic, and social forces and that they are in no broad or ontological sense timeless or natural; they are, in fact, historical. I further believe that these forces -- things crucially in some manner of flux and struggle -- are largely responsible not just for our understanding but also (connectedly) for our feelings of what’s natural and authentic and genuine and awesome. I think this is a simple but essential thing to recognize and one that too few people really appreciate despite how de rigueur “anti-essentialismâ€

Even if you are correct, you're still going to run STRAIGHT into that fact that a large number of posters here are convinced that rock music is A, not like a child's painting and B, is entirely intentional.

wiener-y asshole.

Jeremy wrote:

Even if you are correct, you're still going to run STRAIGHT into that fact that a large number of posters here are convinced that rock music is A, not like a child's painting and B, is entirely intentional.

wiener-y asshole.

Name-calling is so 1975.

LAD wrote:Another example that comes to mind is Oscar Wilde. Much of his work is characterized by playfulness, camp, ruse, subterfuge, etc, but I think it will hold up for a long time and, personally, I find some of it extremely engaging.

Yes, I think that is important not to be immediately dismissive of that which you perceive to be inauthentic, camp or intentionally kitsch. There is cultural necessity for the playful subversion of authoritative 'taste' as an essential or transhistorical absolute. The dominance of normative 'taste' is a veneer for hierarchical structures which cannot always be critiqued directly. They require a look awry.

Morrissey's fascination with skinhead culture could be said to be an affectation of his working class view point combined with homoerotic overtones, rather than an endorsement of fascist values. Certain music journalists in England were unable to grasp this subversion and Morrisey felt it necessary to move to L.A.

I think Electric Eel John Morton's hilarious explanation of his youthful penchant for White Power t-shirts is pertinent to this: White Power!

If you don't like it you can file your complaints here: Complaints!

You could see this sort of cultural appropriation as 'inauthentic' rather than playful. But that would be a touch self-serious. After all, seriousness is often the refuge of the shallow.

Welcome to planet EXAMINETHEISSUETODEATH.

Nothing new under the sun guys, try to enjoy the rock while you're alive.

Even if you are correct, you're still going to run STRAIGHT into that fact that a large number of posters here are convinced that rock music is A, not like a child's painting and B, is entirely intentional.

I agree with those posters that rock music is not at all like a child's painting. And I agree with those posters that rock is no less sophisticated a form of art than jazz/classical/whatever.

agree with aaron that everyone’s tastes are always already embedded in a field of cultural, economic, and social forces and that they are in no broad or ontological sense timeless or natural; they are, in fact, historical.
<snip>
However, the above is a piss-poor excuse for the failure to pass judgments and make distinctions.

Yes, I agree completely.

[quote]But even in literature it does not follow from the intentional fallacy that all readings are equal. They aren’t. And a racist skinhead who gets off listening to “Guilty of Being Whiteâ€

bomberz1qr20 wrote:Welcome to planet EXAMINETHEISSUETODEATH.

Nothing new under the sun guys, try to enjoy the rock while you're alive.

Exactly.

bomberz1qr20 wrote:Welcome to planet EXAMINETHEISSUETODEATH.

Nothing new under the sun guys, try to enjoy the rock while you're alive.

You have a valid point!

I'm done.

ok, i'm not reading this enitre thread...but

i know this!!!

i love the newer stuff Wilco has been doing...and al they are doing is ripping off the later days Beatles stuff

but it has it's own flavor and i don't care how much they rip it off

they are still writing good songs and recording them well

ok..i'm done

Side note: the last Wilco album was recorded by Walter Sear at Sear Sound. Walter is super precise, and extremely anal about his recordings. It's obvious on this recording.


Jeremy