Premier Rock Forum

This, from the Mean-Spirited Thread About Each Other's Boots, is probably the most underrated post on this site.Madman Munt wrote:What do you keep in that side pocket? Half a saucisson sec?

I mean, come ON. I ve never seen such a well cited post. Ever. Bravo FM TD. Schooled. total\_douche wrote:givemenoughrope wrote:total\_douche wrote:I think it's a matter of perspective. Having lived a lifetime of being brown, I just don't see a difference between Liam Neeson wanting to kill the first black man he saw and the every day racism that most white people, including - no, especially - white "liberals," hide beneath the surface. It's just a matter of degree.You see what you did there? You've never been a Catholic in Northern Ireland in the 60s-70s (I assume) let alone any number of white liberals so how could you possibly know that? Because actions and systems speak pretty damn loud? Look, I'm not trying to say that I know for a fact that all white people are racist murdering bastards, I'm saying that when you consider the totality of actions and attitudes emanating from people who are superficially "woke," you begin to realize that systematic racism has tainted their actions in ways that most of them haven't even really considered yet. For a lot of us who aren't white, the dissonance between the self-righteousness and the actions are laughable. Maybe if some of these judgmental people took a good long look in the mirror and asked themselves if they're really absolutely certain that they haven't thought like Liam did in some way in the past, they might find that they're not as innocent as they think they are.Again, it's helpful to remember that, for a lot of us, the difference between Liam and the woman I talked about isn't a difference of kind, it's a difference of degree. Speaking of which:givemenoughrope wrote:total\_douche wrote: Just like that white "liberal" woman who suddenly lost interest in me because "I was raped by a guy who spoke Spanish once, so I won't date anyone who has any Spanish ancestry."If she were assaulted by a guy in a Red Sox hat she'd probably have a thing against Red Sox hats. And possibly White Sox hats or baseball caps in general. It's not for you or anyone else to have any say in. So... nobody can have a say in Liam's prejudice? This is literally different versions of the same thing, which is trauma - either primary or secondary - feeding some kind of prejudice. The point I'm making is that if you're on the receiving end of the prejudice, it doesn't really matter what the justification is. At least Liam is making even the most minimal effort to confront that prejudice. That's better than most people. Most white people just create irrational neoliberal constructions about "personal preference" (Robinson, 2015; Bedi, 2015; Callander, Newman, and Holt, 2015). Well, I hate to break it to you, but there is a pretty strong correlation between those "preferences" and racist attitudes in general (Callander, Newman, and Holt, 2015).You could say that she might have felt that way about Red Sox fans, but here's the thing you're not getting: society has constructed ideas about brown men being sexually dangerous to white women (who are, of course, child-like, innocent, and lack any kind of agency - a ludicrous and patriarchal construction) since the time of Jane Addams (Bromfield, 2016). Do you want to know how American society has typically justified outlawing drugs? By claiming that middle class white women - usually the worst offenders in any drug epidemic - were being taken advantage of by brown men on (insert drug here). Taken in that context, do you think that maybe - just maybe - there might be a high likelihood of a parallel between this woman's thinking and Liam Neeson's? For fuck's sake, Susan Brownmiller used a racist construction of "feminism" to all but justify the lynching of Emmett Till (the African-American reaction to which was the foundation of the modern interpretation of the idea of the intersection of oppressed identities)!givemenoughrope wrote:total\_douche wrote:the systematic removal of brown genes from the system.Not seeing this trend from LA...although it has been raining more lately.Good news: when I say "I've done my research," I mean that I have done my research in an academic context and have had it critically evaluated by people who do research for a living. Here's a laundry list of reading for you:Allison, R., & Risman, B. J. (2014). œIt goes hand in hand with the parties : Race, class, and residence in college student negotiations of hooking up. Sociological Perspectives, 57(1), 102-123. https://doi.org/10.1177/0731121413516608Bedi, S. (2015). Sexual racism: intimacy as a matter of justice. The Journal of Politics, 77(4), 998-1011. https://doi.org/10.1086/682749Bromfield, N. F. (2016). Sex slavery and sex trafficking of women in the United States: Historical and contemporary parallels, policies, and perspectives in social work. Journal of Women and Social Work, 31(1), 129-139. https://doi.org/10.1177/0886109915616437Callander, D., Newman, C. E., & Holt, M. (2015). Is sexual racism really racism? Distinguishing attitudes toward sexual racism and generic racism among gay and bisexual men. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 44, 1991-2000. https://doi.org/10.1007/s10508-015-0487-3Cross, T. & Blackstock, C. (2012). Special foreword: We are the manifestations of our ancestor's prayers. Child Welfare, 91(3), 9-14.Curington, C. V., Lin, K. H., & Lundquist, J. H. (2015). Positioning multiraciality in cyberspace: Treatment of multiracial daters in an online dating website. American Sociological Review 80(4), 764-788. https://doi.org/10.1177/0003122415591268Feliciano, C., Robnett, B., & Komaie, G. (2009). Gendered racial exclusion among white internet daters. Social Science Research, 38(1), 39-54. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ssresearch.2008.09.004Feliciano, C., Lee, R., & Robnett, B. (2011). Racial boundaries among Latinos: Evidence from internet daters racial preferences. Social Problems 58(2), 189-212. https://doi.org/10.1525/sp.2011.58.2.189Herman, M. R., & Campbell, M. E. (2012). I wouldn't, but you can: Attitudes toward interracial relationships. Social Science Research 41(2), 343-58. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ssresearch.2011.11.007Lichter, D. (2013). Integration or fragmentation? Racial diversity and the American future. Demography 50(2), 359-391. https://doi.org/10.1007/s13524-013-0197-1Lundquist, J. H., & Lin, K. H. (2013). Mate selection in cyberspace: The intersection of race, gender, and education. American Journal of Sociology, 119(1), 183-215. https://doi.org/10.1086/673129Lundquist, J. H., & Lin, K. H. (2015). Is love (color) blind? The economy of race among gay and straight daters. Social Forces 93(4), 1423 “1449. https://doi.org/10.1093/sf/sov008McClintock, E. A. (2010). When does race matter? Race, sex, and dating at an elite university. Journal of Marriage and Family 72(1), 45-72. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1741- 3737.2009.00683.xO'Brien, G. V. (2011). Eugenics, genetics, and the minority group model of disabilities: Implications for social work advocacy. Social Work, 56(4), 347-354. https://doi.org/10.1093/sw/56.4.347Owen, J., Rhoades, G., Stanley, S., & Fincham, F. (2010). œHooking up among college students: Demographic and psychosocial correlates. Archives of Sexual Behavior 39(3), 653-663. https://doi.org/10.1007/s10508-008-9414-1Perry, S. L. (2014). Hoping for a godly (white) family: How desire for religious heritage affects whites attitudes toward interracial marriage. Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion 53(1), 202-218. https://doi.org/10.1111/jssr.12079Reece, R. L. (2015). What are you mixed with: The effect of multiracial identification on perceived attractiveness. Review of Black Political Economy 43(2), 139-147. https://doi.org/10.1007/s12114-015-9218-1Robinson, B. A. (2015). œPersonal preference as the new racism: gay desire and racial cleansing in cyberspace. Sociology of Race and Ethnicity 1(2), 317 “330. https://doi.org/10.1177/2332649214546870Robnett, B., & Feliciano, C. (2011). Patterns of racial-ethnic exclusion by internet daters. Social Forces, 89(3), 807-828. https://doi.org/10.1093/sf/89.3.807Spell, S. A. (2017). Not just black and white: How race/ethnicity and gender intersect in hookup culture. Sociology of Race and Ethnicity 3(2), 172-187. https://doi.org/10.1177/2332649216658296Tsunokai, G. T., McGrath, A. R., & Kavanagh, J. K. (2014). Online dating preferences of Asian Americans. Journal of Social and Personal Relationships 2014, 31(6), 796 “814. https://doi.org/0.1177/0265407513505925Wu, K., Chen, C., & Greenberger, E. (2015). The sweetness of forbidden fruit: Interracial daters are more attractive than intraracial daters. Journal of Social and Personal Relationships 32(5), 650 “666. https://doi.org/0.1177/0265407514541074\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_So, more to the point: if I, as a brown person in the most racist country on Earth that doesn't begin with "J" and end in "apan," fully aware that I cannot speak for anyone but myself, had a chance to talk to Liam Neeson about what he did, I would say this:"Liam, your thoughts and actions in that moment were not atypical, but were still extremely wrong. Trauma is never an acceptable justification for prejudice. It's good that you've begun to recognize this in at least some small way, but I would encourage you to consider how your actions fit in the context of a world that has been treating brown people as expendable for centuries. It's a good thing that you didin't commit any actual violence that night, but it was only a matter of chance that you didn't. This is important. This is an experience that you need to learn from, and you are probably going to have to pay some harsh consequences. I would encourage you to form meaningful relationships with a diverse group of people, gain as much insight as you can from them, and do your best to encourage the next generation to think differently."

In the PRF campout thread:the\_joe\_lemur wrote:cneutron wrote:Anyway, i'd be interested in hearing some of the PRF bands in a more stripped down/subdued environment. I think that stuff can work really well, and when it doesn't... well, at least it isn't that taxing to the ears.Do they even make aluminum acoustic guitars