Just because somebody has been convicted of a crime, that does not necessarily make him my enemy. If I were standing in a public place and some guy started shooting wildly at random people, then yes, I'd consider that guy to be an immediate threat and in that sense, my enemy in the struggle for survival. If I had the means to stop him using whatever force was at my disposal, I hope I would not hesitate to do so in the interest of my own life and the lives of others. However, I'm glad not to currently be in that position right now.

I have a good deal of resentment towards George W. Bush for the horrible things he has wrought in the world under the flag of my own country, at the expense of the reputation of our people. I feel that his actions as administrator of this country have been inexcusable and I want to see him brought to justice for that (as unlikely as that prospect may be at this time). However, that does not necessarily translate to 'enmity' in my book.

Rick Reuben wrote:It is impossible for anyone to know whether there is a soul that continues to exist after the container flatlines. Like the origins of the universe, it's a mystery

Ok, why is this a 'mystery'? It's a completely made up notion. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever a human would have a 'soul' or an 'afterlife' aside from the fact people have decided that's what they are going to believe. It's no 'mystery' it's a ridiculous theory someone came up with that has stuck around.
The fact that lots of people have decided to believe it, that's what makes it a valid concept and intelligent people must accept it as 'maybe'?
Fuck that, I drove by 'American Idol Live' at the Allstate the other day on my lunch break, there were 30,000 people lined up trying to get in.
That makes it something I must accept as a valid form of entertainment? Sheer numbers?
It's wrong for me to think those people are nutso retards for paying 100 dollars to see that horseshit?

OK, get this....I think a unicorn flies up and grabs the moon and pulls it down every night, thus creating night for us.
You say 'that's not true, that makes no sense and is retarded'
I say 'Well, it's not a proven fact...it's a great mystery of the universe whether or not a unicorn grabs the moon and pulls it down every night.
Nobody knows for sure.
You say 'bullshit'
I say 'well, I read it in a book once and I have a thousand other people who believe the same thing'
'So what, it's stupid and it's just not true, it's completely made up there is absolutely no truth or evidence supporting that concept whatsoever'

Same shit.

A leprechaun coming in your house when you are sleeping and peeing in your ear is the cause of earaches. Well, nobody knows for sure because they are sleeping at the time but it's a great mystery whether or not it's true.

Marsupialized wrote:

Rick Reuben wrote:It is impossible for anyone to know whether there is a soul that continues to exist after the container flatlines. Like the origins of the universe, it's a mystery

Ok, why is this a 'mystery'? It's a completely made up notion. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever a human would have a 'soul' or an 'afterlife' aside from the fact people have decided that's what they are going to believe. It's no 'mystery' it's a ridiculous theory someone came up with that has stuck around.
The fact that lots of people have decided to believe it, that's what makes it a valid concept and intelligent people must accept it as 'maybe'?
Fuck that, I drove by 'American Idol Live' at the Allstate the other day on my lunch break, there were 30,000 people lined up trying to get in.
That makes it something I must accept as a valid form of entertainment? Sheer numbers?
It's wrong for me to think those people are nutso retards for paying 100 dollars to see that horseshit?

OK, get this....I think a unicorn flies up and grabs the moon and pulls it down every night, thus creating night for us.
You say 'that's not true, that makes no sense and is retarded'
I say 'Well, it's not a proven fact...it's a great mystery of the universe whether or not a unicorn grabs the moon and pulls it down every night.
Nobody knows for sure.
You say 'bullshit'
I say 'well, I read it in a book once and I have a thousand other people who believe the same thing'
'So what, it's stupid and it's just not true, it's completely made up there is absolutely no truth or evidence supporting that concept whatsoever'

Same shit.

A leprechaun coming in your house when you are sleeping and peeing in your ear is the cause of earaches. Well, nobody knows for sure because they are sleeping at the time but it's a great mystery whether or not it's true.

Just great. Now i'll never get any sleep tonight.

Don't get yourself involved.--my dad

My anger at euthanasia laws, abortion laws, stem cell laws, genetic engineering laws, sex ed laws, censorship laws and everything else religious rule gives us aside. I said my desire to eradicate religion is based in the fact it is holding progress of the species back, HARD. Not only holding the species back but leading the species into self destruction. Back into the cave instead of out into the stars. It's the only thing doing so, more than your greedy banker jews or what have you. Greed can be quite useful, remember. Exploiting greed in people can make for some spectacular progress.
Offer 20 billion dollars to the first person who can come up with...shit, name it. Want a talking horse? I assure you SOMEONE will get to work and make you a talking horse in no time.
Religion would put a quick end to this meddling with 'god's plan' though, so no talking horse for you.
Religion preys on the weak and sucks them dry. Exploits the worst fears in people, it's just a vile presence on this planet. SHOULD NOT BE CELEBRATED. Should be eradicated.

We are more on the same page than you think on this stuff.

You said it yourself, religion is a tool being used to keep people in line. I even agree it's the ultra wealthy sinister power mad rulers of the Earth pulling the strings.
I am of the opinion that religion is a crock of shit ball of bullshit lies. Straight up. Every single one. The people at the top of them and their strongest proponents do not believe for one second the horseshit they are spewing out. It's greed and a lust for power. The people at the top are keeping the people sedated with it so they can fuck them, steal from them and use them up for all they are worth. Keeps them docile and on their knees. This is not just blatantly, blazingly corrupt organized religions like catholicism I am speaking about. The very notion we have a 'soul' and there's an 'afterlife' all of it. Even if you are not at all religious or do not attend church, odds are you believe in this shit. It's pumped into your fucking head from every angle from birth on. Just taken as fact, or at very worst 'well, nobody knows it's a great mystery'
That bizarre, wacky notion is kept alive and spoken about and taught for a reason. It's instantly seen as a good thing if someone finds religion or 'gets spiritual', it's to be celebrated. Oh how wonderful. He's really gotten his life together since joining AA, he's very spiritual now, thank goodness he's on the right track finally. This will be the end of our fucking species unless we break free, stuck in the fucking caves forever and ever.

Step number one in breaking free and undermining these elite puppetmasters who've used religion to keep people fighting is to take away their most powerful weapon. Religion. If every single person turned their back on it today, guess what? That tool is gone. What now?

Once humans are no longer of the instant us against them (other religions, the non religious, the sinners, the gays, etc..) mindset joining a religion puts you in, they do what? What do they do? Being humans they look for new people to fight with, who they can look at and say 'I don't like what he's doing' or 'that group of people is wronging me'

They look to the now at least partially vulnerable elite ruling class. The blinders are off. Why can't I succeed like the men up there? They say I can do it, but I cannot. supposedly in America, anything is possible and everyone has a chance. That is not what I see at all. I am held firmly back. Nobody I know can do it, they are held back as well. How do these people rise to these stratospheric heights? How did they get there? Why are they there?

Our only chance at full blown worldwide revolt and revolution is the complete abolishment of religion first and foremost. Religion is the valium pill that keeps people from getting too angry or uppity about these grave injustices being committed against them. With religion when you are angry, you should just stop, drop to your knees and speak to the imaginary man in the sky. Ask him to solve your problems for you. You have to fucking see this man. Instead of gathering up your friends and going to Todd Stroger's house and pulling him out and making him pay, just pray about how poor you are now. God will help you through this tough time. Come and pray and dance and sing in church, you'll forget all about it. God will take that anger out of your heart.
We agree a new system needs to be put into place in order for the world to progress, in order for the species to survive and thrive.
Our views on how to get there just seem a little different.

Rick Reuben wrote:

Johnny 13 wrote: I believe people have the right to take part in things I disagree with not being the least of those.

Well, if they have a right, then doesn't a right trump your antitheistic musings? Aren't you setting yourself up for a losing battle, by defining religion as a right? I mean, if you're counting on attrition, then you're not really fighting the religious people, you're just standing by watching them.

That's why I advocate choosing enemies based on things that are decidedly *not* a right- like illegally implementing a debt-backed fiat money system. Nobody can say that it is the right of a private cartel to profit from a monopoly over the peoples' own money and bury us in debt.

If you're not going to waste your time trying to classify religion as a thought crime, and you are not advocating extreme coercion or violence to end religions, then why not take religious people off your enemies list and go after criminals who have nothing to hide behind, like the bankers? There's a way bigger upside for society, if you can end the tyranny of a tiny group of vampires, who are making themselves trillionaires by enslaving the world to paper that they print.

( Although they do try and claim that they are the victims of racial or religious prejudice to escape justice, the facts are the facts, and their banking system is a crime, and would be a crime if it was managed by computers that had no race or religion. )

This was kind of an unexpected response, and I don't believe that your conclusions about how I feel resemble the how or why of what I do feel. I don't believe in thought crime (and while a legal issue, motivation is typically not as important to me as action in general). This is not a situation where I trump or am trumped. I have no need to try and convince people to not believe in their gods, and doing so would bring me no benefit. I imagine trying would entrench their belief, and would prolong the hold of the franchise over parts of the population.

Mark answered well for me, because in the end these are not my enemies, but my countrymen that we are talking about. I want a peaceful coexistence. Life is often grief, and our freedoms overlap. I am free to dislike the effects of religion in America and in the world, without having to go all black metal and torch their buildings. I can live a sexy secular life in my city without having to step over much religion, and it is somewhat rare that I need to worry about religious intrustion personally. I don't mind saying "Merry Christmas" to someone who will have a fit if I say "happy holidays". I do mind when mythology fans interfere with women's private medical decisions, or petition the government to take away/curb freedoms so that homosexuals cannot marry.

If it was all bells on Sunday and spaghetti dinner adverts on lamp posts, I would have no problem with the people who like to look at the man kebab.

Rick Reuben wrote:

Marsupialized wrote:I dislike giant evil greedy corporations as well, but that doesn't make me suddenly not despise religion or religious people. I still do.

Do you agree that giant greedy corporations hold several magnitudes more of evil power over your life than Christianity does?

I really think it is a very bad generality to say that you 'despise religious people'. I think if you thought about it, you'd recognize that some of the best people in your life might practice a religion of some sort. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you purposely surround yourself with only atheists, but it seems unlikely. I would differentiate between the religious heirarchy and the rank and file followers, or at least separate out the fanatics. I mean really, you can't seriously tell me that you watch families that you don't even know exiting a church on Sunday morning, kids in tow, and you're thinking "I despise these total strangers." Makes no sense. It's real bigoted.

Can you name which Christian laws interfere with your life? I'm not trying to badger you. I just couldn't think of any. Maybe there's something obvious I'm missing.

As long as Christians allow bullshit like picketing the funerals of homosexuals and don't show up to take those people to task, They will be despised.

As long as Christians refuse to admit killing doctors who work at abortion clinics amounts to the same terrorisom as is a tactic in the middle east, they will be despised.

As long as Christian leaders call for the assasination of Hugo Chavez, they will be despised.

If as a whole Christians will not condemn these thing, they deserve to be despised.

Rick Reuben wrote:

Colonel Panic wrote:At this point in my life I can happily say that there's not a single human being whom I'd consider to be an "enemy".

That's fucking retarded. You can't classify George Bush as an enemy of good Americans?? His army killed a million Iraqis in our name because he said they had bombs and were coming to kill us. You let some nut put that devilish stain on all of us and he doesn't fit the definition of enemy?

To take this point seriously, I see G-Dub not as an enemy of good Americans as much as an enemy of democracy as a concept America is based on.

I feel like the events you've outlined put a way bigger black eye on the democratic principles the country was founded on than it does me as an American.

numberthirty wrote:As long as Christians allow bullshit like picketing the funerals of homosexuals and don't show up to take those people to task, They will be despised.

As long as Christians refuse to admit killing doctors who work at abortion clinics amounts to the same terrorisom as is a tactic in the middle east, they will be despised.

As long as Christian leaders call for the assasination of Hugo Chavez, they will be despised.

If as a whole Christians will not condemn these thing, they deserve to be despised.

Yes, and the "christian left" who do not believe or participate in the above like their crazed conservative brethren yet fail to speak out loudly enough against it are also just as deserving. Frequently they can be heard whining "we're the good xtians, we believe in social justice and the 'true' message of jesus, don't lump us in with those wackos, etc. etc." Well, then they should be publicly and vehemently denouncing the beliefs and actions of the radical religious right every single day, ganging up on them like Hitchens and Dawkins and Maher all together on crack. Until then, they're just like the rest.