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twelvepoint wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 7:37 am Another +1 to FM Frankie99. This vocal opposition to participating in democracy because of its many flaws is basically projecting one’s taste to others, and accomplishes nothing beyond ego self gratification.

what democracy?!?! they chose the candidate, we didn't. jfc when did this forum turn into a neolib imperialist circle jerk

dumbass wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 10:33 am what democracy?!?! they chose the candidate, we didn't. jfc when did this forum turn into a neolib imperialist circle jerk

Do you offer anything other than parroting the more obnoxious elements of Bluesky? Fuck off, grow up.

Scare tactics aren't going to work on marginalized folks that have always been scared. They need more than Democrats baby stepping to the finish line. Trump's removal of the finish line is a terrifying and real thing, but some folks have always felt the finish line was never in reach, or is only in reach once every four years. Kinda like that one philosophy dude, Zeno, and his crazy ideas about motion.

Not a rhetorical question but should Democrats shoulder at least some of the blame towards the fall of Roe vs Wade?

rsmurphy wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 10:48 amNot a rhetorical question but should Democrats shoulder at least some of the blame towards the fall of Roe vs Wade?

Emphatic no on this one. Both in rhetoric and action, the Democrats have been consistent on this.

Frankly, this is one area where so-called “leftists” deserve a ton of blame. In 2016, a number of people (including on this forum) insisted that Roe v Wade was the “blackmail” Democrats used to scare voters onto their side. (And it’s cold comfort that we all now realize that Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibi, and Ralph Nader weren’t really leftists after all.)

I agree with everything else in your post, though!

zorg wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 9:24 am The idea behind not voting, or voting independent for me is not to throw in the towel. Quite the opposite. It's to fight that instinct to be "Petty, self serving, unrelated to the direction of the country". If you really want to bring about change America, you need to get rid of the monolithic structure of the two party system.

I think that's fair, as long as it's operating in tandem with doing work to bring about that change, all the rest of the time. As an isolated act, it's just throwing toys out of a pram from a position of incredible privilege.

Wood Goblin wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 11:00 am

rsmurphy wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 10:48 amNot a rhetorical question but should Democrats shoulder at least some of the blame towards the fall of Roe vs Wade?

Emphatic no on this one. Both in rhetoric and action, the Democrats have been consistent on this.

I am not well-versed about the nuts and bolts of how a government operates, and it feels to me that protections should have been put in place long before Trump. There shouldn't have been a weakness in Roe for the right to exploit, and since the weakness was there why wasn't anything done prior to strengthen it?

Frankly, this is one area where so-called “leftists” deserve a ton of blame. In 2016, a number of people (including on this forum) insisted that Roe v Wade was the “blackmail” Democrats used to scare voters onto their side. (And it’s cold comfort that we all now realize that Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibi, and Ralph Nader weren’t really leftists after all.)

I don't know, man. They couldn't use same-sex marriage anymore since they all finally got on board in the 21st Century. Elites in each major party exploits rather than fixes just to keep themselves in power, so I don't consider it an impossibility for abortion to have been kicked down the line, so to speak.

A_Man_Who_Tries wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 11:04 am

zorg wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 9:24 am The idea behind not voting, or voting independent for me is not to throw in the towel. Quite the opposite. It's to fight that instinct to be "Petty, self serving, unrelated to the direction of the country". If you really want to bring about change America, you need to get rid of the monolithic structure of the two party system.

I think that's fair, as long as it's operating in tandem with doing work to bring about that change, all the rest of the time. As an isolated act, it's just throwing toys out of a pram from a position of incredible privilege.

I have voted third-party in the past and at the time I did not think it was a waste.

I did so knowing that:

- I live in Illinois. The democrat is going to win the state.
- The worst of the two main candidates wasn't nearly as bad as Trump.
- I knew the candidate I voted for was going to lose, though it wasn't throwing in the towel. Goal was in fact looking forward... to get that candidate and their party to 5% so that they could receive federal funding for the next election.

I'm not voting third-party this time.

rsmurphy wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 11:37 am They couldn't use same-sex marriage anymore since they all finally got on board in the 21st Century.

Well while we're on the topic of 'scare tactics' and Project 2025..

rsmurphy wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 11:37 am

I am not well-versed about the nuts and bolts of how a government operates, and it feels to me that protections should have been put in place long before Trump. There shouldn't have been a weakness in Roe for the right to exploit, and since the weakness was there why wasn't anything done prior to strengthen it?

Ultimately because there is a disproportionately low number of women in leadership roles

Lu Zwei wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 10:02 am I live with 1400$ (after tax) as my monthly income. In that amount I had to include my apartment, bank loan, child welfare and somehow manage as a human being with my needs and hobbies.

Damn dude, could I send you some distortion pedals or something?