Sly Bug wrote:

Josef K wrote:No Sly, it has to be intentional hand ball. That was not. The ball struck the arm and the arm was behind the player at the time.


Four from five is a pretty good return!

Josef,

This is a "school yard" rule. If the hand ball is intentional or not doesn't matter at all.
What matters is if the hand/arm is hold against the body or not. Do you see what I mean? It wasn't the case: it should have been a penalty kick. No doubt, especially if the goal would have been scored without that arm.

Sly, sore as that beating was, please don't take it as an insult to your national pride. The French team are past their best and really need an injection of new blood.

With regards the penalty. The hand to ball (deliberate) / ball to hand (not deliberate) rule is not 'school yard' but is fundamental to the rules of the game. From the FA rules:

Fouls and misconduct are penalised as
follows:

Direct Free Kick

A direct free kick is awarded to the
opposing team if a player commits any of
the following six offences in a manner
considered by the referee to be careless,
reckless or using excessive force:

1. kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
2. trips or attempts to trip an opponent
3. jumps at an opponent
4. charges an opponent
5. strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
6. pushes an opponent

A direct free kick is also awarded to the
opposing team if a player commits any of
the following four offences:

7. tackles an opponent to gain possession of
the ball, making contact with the opponent
before touching the ball
8. holds an opponent
9. spits at an opponent
10. handles the ball deliberately (except for the
goalkeeper within his own penalty area)

A direct free kick is taken from where the
offence occurred.*

Penalty Kick

A penalty kick is awarded if any of these ten
offences is committed by a player inside his
own penalty area, irrespective of the position
of the ball, provided it is in play.

It was a good call from the ref. I'm not attempting to be provocative, but I don't agree that it was a penalty. The ref got it right.

Sorry Sylvain, I'm with Josef.

Fucking amazing day of football - such good games. Holland - this is a motherfucking team. I don't know what will happen to them if they go a goal down - will they collapse? But for the moment this is the most fun I've had watching a European team in years.

And Buffon's save - I hate him, I hate the Italians, but this is one of the best penalty stops I've ever seen. So, so good.

I am loving this. Life is pretty tough at the moment, and Euro 2008 is somehow acting as an anchor, a stabiliser to it all. So glad to see a great tournament unfolding...

hello all. the dutch have been great, and really good fun to watch. I'm a little sceptical though - they've scored an early goal in both their games, which has allowed them to sit back and counter attack all night. I'm sure that's what they're aiming for, but game plans do go wrong. I wonder what'll happen when someone scores against them first and the tables are turned. Also, I keep thinking about Spain in the world cup, failing after looking amazing in the group stages. And surely they're bound to fall out with each other at some point.
I'm watching far too much football, and loving it.
sorry to hear you're having a hard time simmo. take care!

Josef, you're right. Sorry about that.

What's happenning Simmo?

A friend of mine had a nervous breakdown and was desperately in need of psychiartic care. Calls to hospitals, talk of suicide, calls to her mother, etc. Not fun.

But enough of that - she is doing a little better and I think she will be ok. We're here to discuss football!

Is that you Seth? As in boudle bass Seth? If so, good to see you here mate!



edit: that's meant to say "double bass" but I think I shall leave this typo there as I like it. BOUDLE BASS!

Mes commisérations, Sly Bug. Luck was on our side, but yesterday def. showed that gutsy, attacking football is now the game to beat. A great night for football, esp. after the WC '06 which I thought was a major bumfuck.

Better teams will give us a harder time down the line. And it was hard this time (the result is def. flattered).

But so many Dutch players are peaking at this moment.

It's pretty incredible.

Sly Bug wrote:Josef, you're right. Sorry about that.

What's happenning Simmo?

No problems, Sly. I can feel your pain. As a Scotland supporter I've seen my share of disappointing performances.

Josef K wrote:

Sly Bug wrote:

Josef K wrote:No Sly, it has to be intentional hand ball. That was not. The ball struck the arm and the arm was behind the player at the time.


Four from five is a pretty good return!

Josef,

This is a "school yard" rule. If the hand ball is intentional or not doesn't matter at all.
What matters is if the hand/arm is hold against the body or not. Do you see what I mean? It wasn't the case: it should have been a penalty kick. No doubt, especially if the goal would have been scored without that arm.

Sly, sore as that beating was, please don't take it as an insult to your national pride. The French team are past their best and really need an injection of new blood.

With regards the penalty. The hand to ball (deliberate) / ball to hand (not deliberate) rule is not 'school yard' but is fundamental to the rules of the game. From the FA rules:

Fouls and misconduct are penalised as
follows:

Direct Free Kick

A direct free kick is awarded to the
opposing team if a player commits any of
the following six offences in a manner
considered by the referee to be careless,
reckless or using excessive force:

1. kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
2. trips or attempts to trip an opponent
3. jumps at an opponent
4. charges an opponent
5. strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
6. pushes an opponent

A direct free kick is also awarded to the
opposing team if a player commits any of
the following four offences:

7. tackles an opponent to gain possession of
the ball, making contact with the opponent
before touching the ball
8. holds an opponent
9. spits at an opponent
10. handles the ball deliberately (except for the
goalkeeper within his own penalty area)

A direct free kick is taken from where the
offence occurred.*

Penalty Kick

A penalty kick is awarded if any of these ten
offences is committed by a player inside his
own penalty area, irrespective of the position
of the ball, provided it is in play.

It was a good call from the ref. I'm not attempting to be provocative, but I don't agree that it was a penalty. The ref got it right.

This has just happened again in Greece - Russia.

If the defender is on the line and the ball hits his hand, with no intent at all, the ref would give it every time.

I think there is room for common sense in this rule, or maybe even a slight change in the rule.

If the ball to hand occurs from a shot, or ball travelling towards the goal, it should be a penalty.

From crosses or a loose ball the defender should get the benefit of the doubt.

Here is the French interview with the player who stopped Henry's shot, admitting he did it on purpose and that there should have been a penalty.

Pays-Bas : Ooijer avoue
Rédaction Football365 - samedi 14 juin 2008 - 22h05

Le défenseur central des Pays-Bas, André Ooijer, a reconnu samedi qu'il avait volontairement repoussé le tir de Thierry Henry de la main contre la France et qu'il y avait donc bien penalty.
L'équipe de France aurait dû obtenir un penalty suite à la frappe de Thierry Henry repoussée devant sa ligne par André Ooijer. Le défenseur central néerlandais l'a lui-même reconnu samedi devant la presse.

« Oui, il y avait penalty sur le tir de Thierry Henry, a avoué Ooijer. Je stoppe complètement le ballon de la main. Sans cela, il y a certainement but. »

A.C

Bosnian Guy Talking on his cell phone outside of pub today after Spain-Sweden match, who I was privileged enough to overhear:

"Spain. Spain. They score in third minute of injury time... fuck-ing poosies. They are fuck-ing poosies. Okay... okay, bye."

This man, he made my day.