baseball season 2004
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 10:02 am
OK, first of all, let me say this - I don't have any axe to grind against black baseball players.
I simply don't believe in (and you're not at fault, because there are a lot of people with your same agenda) rewriting or discounting past history due to pre-existing racism, not only in regards to sports, but life in general. Sure, it may be a form of retribution, but it doesn't mean it's accurate.
I'm not discounting any black pitching. I'm saying, black pitchers then were along the same lines as black quarterbacks in football - there just weren't that many of them. Neither Bob Gibson nor Juan Marichal were pitching in 1978. How the Negro League players are relevant to the discussion at hand, that being Pete Rose's hitting streak vs. Joe DiMaggio's...well, I have absolutely ZERO clue as to where you're going with that.
I'll give you Ferguson Jenkins, but J.R. Richard??? Neither J.R. Richard nor Fergie were the caliber of pitchers as the guys I mentioned from the 40s: Warren Spahn, Hal Newhouser, Bob Feller, as well as Dizzy Dean, Lefty Gomez, Lefty Grove, Carl Hubbell, Bob Lemon, Ted Lyons, Red Ruffing, and Early Wynn. Bob Gibson and Juan Marichal could hold their heads up with those guys, but again, neither were pitching in 1978
Anyway, neither Fergie Jenkins nor J.R. Richard were All Stars in 1978 - Vida Blue was the only one of the three good black pitchers who made the squads.
You can't bump Pete Rose up past Joe DiMaggio's accomplishment for facing a handful, AT BEST, black pitchers, who weren't even the best pitchers of their OWN era, let alone in comparison to pitchers in years past.
Again, nothing against black pitchers...but in 1978, they were scarce. I mean, let's talk about black/latino Hall Of Fame pitchers from Pete Rose's playing days in comparison to white Hall Of Fame pitchers.
You've got Juan Marichal, Fergie Jenkins, Satchel Paige and Bob Gibson. I don't think I'm missing any.
Of the caucasian persuasion we have: Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan, Jim Palmer, Whitey Ford, Phil Neikro, Gaylord Perry, Rollie Fingers, Sandy Koufax, Robin Roberts, Warren Spahn (yes, Spahn played with both DiMaggio and Rose), Don Sutton, Don Drysdale, and Hoyt Willhelm.
There's ABSOLUTELY no comparison between the pitching in Major League baseball in the 20s-60s, and that of the post expansion, 5-man roster, specialized player era of the 70s and beyond. It's unfathomable to compare two EQUAL batting accomplishments in the two eras...nevermind the fact the Rose fell 21% short of what DiMaggio did. I would challenge you to find ANY past or current baseball player who would put Pete Rose's 44 game hitting streak withing the same stratosphere as what Joe DiMaggio did. I'll bet you, arrogant as he is, Pete himself would laugh at your suggestion.
I simply don't believe in (and you're not at fault, because there are a lot of people with your same agenda) rewriting or discounting past history due to pre-existing racism, not only in regards to sports, but life in general. Sure, it may be a form of retribution, but it doesn't mean it's accurate.
I'm not discounting any black pitching. I'm saying, black pitchers then were along the same lines as black quarterbacks in football - there just weren't that many of them. Neither Bob Gibson nor Juan Marichal were pitching in 1978. How the Negro League players are relevant to the discussion at hand, that being Pete Rose's hitting streak vs. Joe DiMaggio's...well, I have absolutely ZERO clue as to where you're going with that.
I'll give you Ferguson Jenkins, but J.R. Richard??? Neither J.R. Richard nor Fergie were the caliber of pitchers as the guys I mentioned from the 40s: Warren Spahn, Hal Newhouser, Bob Feller, as well as Dizzy Dean, Lefty Gomez, Lefty Grove, Carl Hubbell, Bob Lemon, Ted Lyons, Red Ruffing, and Early Wynn. Bob Gibson and Juan Marichal could hold their heads up with those guys, but again, neither were pitching in 1978
Anyway, neither Fergie Jenkins nor J.R. Richard were All Stars in 1978 - Vida Blue was the only one of the three good black pitchers who made the squads.
You can't bump Pete Rose up past Joe DiMaggio's accomplishment for facing a handful, AT BEST, black pitchers, who weren't even the best pitchers of their OWN era, let alone in comparison to pitchers in years past.
Again, nothing against black pitchers...but in 1978, they were scarce. I mean, let's talk about black/latino Hall Of Fame pitchers from Pete Rose's playing days in comparison to white Hall Of Fame pitchers.
You've got Juan Marichal, Fergie Jenkins, Satchel Paige and Bob Gibson. I don't think I'm missing any.
Of the caucasian persuasion we have: Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan, Jim Palmer, Whitey Ford, Phil Neikro, Gaylord Perry, Rollie Fingers, Sandy Koufax, Robin Roberts, Warren Spahn (yes, Spahn played with both DiMaggio and Rose), Don Sutton, Don Drysdale, and Hoyt Willhelm.
There's ABSOLUTELY no comparison between the pitching in Major League baseball in the 20s-60s, and that of the post expansion, 5-man roster, specialized player era of the 70s and beyond. It's unfathomable to compare two EQUAL batting accomplishments in the two eras...nevermind the fact the Rose fell 21% short of what DiMaggio did. I would challenge you to find ANY past or current baseball player who would put Pete Rose's 44 game hitting streak withing the same stratosphere as what Joe DiMaggio did. I'll bet you, arrogant as he is, Pete himself would laugh at your suggestion.