Premier Rock Forum

capn

what i meant by referring to don cab as jazz was that in terms of *rock* music, they're very jazzy. i agree that a great aspect of jazz, like the blues, is the improvisational nature. i assume this stemmed from their inception without a hundreds-of-years-old structure in place that include things like conductors. i don't think don cab is the essence of jazz at all. but i tend to think of prog as being a merger of rock with classical and jazz. i see prog as a middle zone between the older blues,jazz, classical whatever and the newer stuff like we have today, the post-avant-blah-blah whatever the styles or genres are being called today. i'd agree that it's much more prog than jazz. but i think prog has roots in jazz. that's all i meant.

also, i don't believe i know shit about jazz or classical. prog and metal, maybe. and i know enough about blues to know it doesn't seem to speak to me.

i wouldn't have ever thought the don cab stuff wasn't worked out to the nines ahead of time. but what about tortoise? i don't know any of them or anything, but i'd have a hard time being convinced those guys don't leave stuff loose enough for a substantial amount of improvisation. what is the criteria in terms of improvisation? whether anybody here likes them or not, do people consider the greatful dead a jazz band?

geiginni wrote:Hey Capnreverb,

Are you familiar with recordings Dolphy did with the Chico Hamilton Group? I recently picked up "The Original Ellington Suite" and I really dig his playing, especially on "In A Sentimental Mood" - fantastic! Can you recommend any others that are out there - hopefully in print?

I've got some of Hamilton's earlier stuff on Pacific Jazz LP's (1209 and 1215, I think), but that's with Buddy Colette; which is a whole different bird, but still quite enjoyable.

Any comments would be appreciated....

OK, Eric Dolphy recorded 3 lp's with Chico. In fact, it was his first real recordings after some big band stuff he did in LA in the 40's.
Gong's East - great record with a cheezy oriental kinda theme to it. Good though.
With Strings Attatched - not very good. Eric has some nice solos, but they are lost in the shmaltzy unambitious string arrangments.
The Three Faces of Chic Hamilton - Ok with some nice moments.

He toured New York with that band and did not cause much of a stir. When he came to New York a year later with Mingus, people were freaked the fuck out. He could literaly play circles around everyone. People did not know what to think. He was like Ornette, Bird, and Trane rolled into one crazy fast mofo. Reading reviews of the time are hilarious. Peoples jaws were dropping everywhere.

Miles Davis has a great quote/diss of him. He said "That cat plays like someone is standing on his toes!"

He was doing shit on bass clarinet and flute that were literaly unheard of at that point. Even now, no one has come close. When he died Mingus jumped on his coffin when it was being lowered into the ground. Mingus said Eric was the only musician he ever played with that always got everything right. Mingus never handed out compliments to anyone. He is a guy who would slam the piano cover on a guys hands if he was fuckin up.

Eric Dolphy's bass clarinet solo on Coltranes "India" is why I went and bought a horn. It still gives me goosebumps. That 4 disc set of "Live at the Village Vanguard" is a testement to all that is powerfull in Jazz. So little of any kind of music captures the emotional intensity and bravado as those concerts.

Eric Dolphy's greatest "solo" moments are on the Mingus record on Candid called "Mingus Presents Mingus". If you want to hear a quartet of trumpet, reeds, bass, and drums sound like a fucking big band, this is it. There is an immediacy to the playing that is absolutely unparralled.

All if his lps are great.
"Out There" with a lineup of reeds,bass, cello, and drums is fantastic chamber jazz.

For shits and giggles, there is a Miles Davis import cd called "Live In Japan" that was basically the famous group with Herbie Hancock and Tony Williams minus Wayne Shorter with Dolphy instead. Talk about someone not fitting in. You can see why he only lasted a few months with Miles.

You really need to go get a two disc set on ECM by Jimmy Giuffre called 1961. It is the only reiisue that ECM has ever put out by a group on another label. Its two records called "Fusion" and "Thesis" that came out on Verve in 1961. Jimmy Giuffre was going "out" before anyone. He just went in the other direction of Trane and Cecil. While they were about volume and muscle, Giuffre was about space, silence, and texture. You can see why all of the European improvisors of today worship him like a god. Also, his lp called "The Jimmy Giuffre Clarinet" is also oustanding.

To be honest, I could go into great detail on allmost everything he and Dolphy ever recorded.

You are right about Mr. Collete, he is very tame.

If you have any questions at all about anything Jazz just ask. If you like one thing, I can probably tell you about 3 things just like it.

Since people are always mentioning "Kind Of Blue", there is a Cannonball Adderly lp called "Quintet Live In Chicago" which is the exact same band recorded at allmost the same time minus Miles. It is fantastic.

As for Jet, when she gets older, she will at one point be obsessed with jazz and eventually be into Brian Eno's pop records. It happens to everyone who is into music eventually. Plus, most great Jazz lp's and those great 70's eno lp's were recorded on analog!

capnreverb wrote:OK, Eric Dolphy recorded 3 lp's with Chico. In fact, it was his first REAL recordings after some big band stuff he did in LA in the 40's.

You really need to go get a two disc set on ECM by Jimmy Giuffre called 1961.

To be honest, I could go into great detail on allmost everything he and Dolphy ever recorded.

If you have any questions at all about anything Jazz just ask. If you like one thing, I can probably tell you about 3 things just like it.

thank you for attempting to ruin jazz music. its not Star Wars. A+.
you should totally 'check that out'.

justinc wrote:thank you for attempting to ruin jazz music. its not Star Wars. A+.
you should totally 'check that out'.

On your advice I did check those films out.
I can't stand Ewoks or Jar Jar Binks.

check out people like ken vandermark, peter brotzman, hamid drake, william parker, jeb bishop, tim daisy, fred anderson, etc. all of these people are currently active in the indie "jazz scene" and will rip bands like don cab a second asshole. i think this scene is more organic and real, while bands like don cab in the "indie rock scene" reform their bands with dollar signs in their eyes so they can stretch out their fifteen minutes of fame. GIVE IT UP! they need a strong dose of diy.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chi-improv/

http://www.atavistic.com/

extortionate rapacious wrote:bands like don cab in the "indie rock scene" reform their bands with dollar signs in their eyes so they can stretch out their fifteen minutes of fame. GIVE IT UP! they need a strong dose of diy.

I like Don Cab, but you're pretty much right.

That said, anyone else from New York catching them at Northsix this March?