Tony wrote:

3. "Wow, I bet that no one will bring up the question of whether or not Shane Mack was the better Twins outfielder during the 1991 World Series season."

In that World Series Shane Mack went 3 for 23 with 7 strikeouts and 1 RBI, and Kirby went 6 for 24 with 7 strikeouts and 4 RBIs. The Twins' victories in Games 1 and 2 were true team efforts. Puckett carried them on his back in Game 6; Morris, in Game 7. So when you write "outfielder" you must mean Mack was better defensively, or what exactly?

What you will do, Tony, is you will go back and read where I wrote these words: "the better Twins outfielder during the 1991 World Series season".

After you read these words, Tony, you will go back and compare the 1991 season statistics for Shane Mack and Kirby Puckett.

vockins wrote:

Bradley R. Weissenberger wrote:4. "Wow, Jim Rice is still not in the Hall of Fame."

Or Don Mattingly.

vockins, you always contribute good and articulate comments to our baseball discussions. Therefore, I would like to hear your argument for the enshrinement of Don Mattingly in the Hall of Fame.

I trust that this Don Mattingly discussion will take place after you state your case for the HOF induction of Albert "Joey" Belle.

rocco wrote:Not missed at all. He was a real scumbag.

This really should be stressed. I concur.

What you will do, Tony, is you will go back and read where I wrote these words: "the better Twins outfielder during the 1991 World Series season".

After you read these words, Tony, you will go back and compare the 1991 season statistics for Shane Mack and Kirby Puckett.

I've reread your original post. My only excuse for first misreading it is I couldn't (nor can I still) imagine why you would ever think anyone in their right mind would have the following thoughts consecutively or within a stream of consiousness:

1. Kirby Puckett just died.
2. I have always thought it a shame people have considered Puckett a better outfielder than Shane Mack during the 1991 season.

That's just plain crazy. I've taken a look at their statistics to see what you could possibly be driving at.

What are you driving at? Please point out the injustice to me.

Tony wrote:

What you will do, Tony, is you will go back and read where I wrote these words: "the better Twins outfielder during the 1991 World Series season".

After you read these words, Tony, you will go back and compare the 1991 season statistics for Shane Mack and Kirby Puckett.

I've reread your original post. My only excuse for first misreading it is I couldn't (nor can I still) imagine why you would ever think anyone in their right mind would have the following thoughts consecutively or within a stream of consiousness:

1. Kirby Puckett just died.
2. I have always thought it a shame people have considered Puckett a better outfielder than Shane Mack during the 1991 season.

That's just plain crazy. I've taken a look at their statistics to see what you could possibly be driving at.

What are you driving at? Please point out the injustice to me.

Tony,

Check the link. Check the stats. Be sure to follow the stats all the way to the end where the column reads OPS. Now check the stats one more time. Meanwhile, I will attempt to find my Shane Mack USA Team Topps Baseball Card. If you still can't see the point, then I will wipe my ass with the card and mail it to Mr. Puckett's funeral with a note with your name on it that reads, "What was he driving at?", as a gift for you. If I can find it.

"Puckett’s ex-wife, Tonya, divorced him in December, barely a year after she told police that he threatened to kill her during a telephone conversation. Over the years, she told SI, Puckett had also tried to strangle her with an electrical cord, locked her in the basement and used a power saw to cut through a door after she had locked herself in a room. Once, she said, he even put a cocked gun to her head while she was holding their young daughter."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseba ... i_puckett/


Can't hold Rod Carew's soiled undercarriage.

Check the link. Check the stats. Be sure to follow the stats all the way to the end where the column reads OPS. Now check the stats one more time. Meanwhile, I will attempt to find my Shane Mack USA Team Topps Baseball Card. If you still can't see the point, then I will wipe my ass with the card and mail it to Mr. Puckett's funeral with a note with your name on it that reads, "What was he driving at?", as a gift for you. If I can find it.

Are you really comfortable filtering down an entire season to one statistic, OPS? Because if you are, be prepared when Shane Mack dies to find the 1991 baseball card of Chili Davis - or better yet, find the card (if it exists) of Lenny Webster. Wipe your ass, write your note, and mail it to the Macks. I will accept this as a gift to me on their horrified behalf.

In 1991 both at the plate and in the field I will take Puckett. We haven't even discussed him in the field yet, have we?

bfields wrote:

Tony wrote:
What was it, glaucoma, that cut his career short?

He spent that season with effectively one functioning eye. Amazing.

This is not true.

Kirby Puckett's last season was 1995. He was beaned in the head by Dennis Martinez near the end of the season, which ended his year. He came back to spring training in 1996 and played a handful of games before waking up with glaucoma one morning. He retired in July after it became clear that his vision would not come back.

As for the stories of threatening his wife, etc., I'm not saying it didn't happen (I'm sure a lot of it did), but apparently there was a lot of questionable evidence. There were times when Tanya Puckett would call the police after talking to Kirby on the telephone when he was halfway across the country, and they deemed her to be in no immediate danger.

For a guy who loved the game as much as he did, to have that thing taken away from him so unexpectedly, I can fully understand how difficult it was on him. Not to make excuses for the bad things he probably did, but c'mon. If you are stripped of your livelihood, you are certain to go nuts, too.

He was engaged and was going to be married in June of this year and apparently was starting to turn his life around again. All of this is much too sad.

Whispers about Puckett's mental state started not long after he was forced into retirement.

His physical state was obviously deteriorating in a dramatic fashion.

I wouldn't excuse beating on women, regardless, but if he did it, there may have been reasons for it beyond mere scumbaggery.

Germ War wrote:

bfields wrote:

Tony wrote:
What was it, glaucoma, that cut his career short?

He spent that season with effectively one functioning eye. Amazing.

This is not true.

Kirby Puckett's last season was 1995. He was beaned in the head by Dennis Martinez near the end of the season, which ended his year. He came back to spring training in 1996 and played a handful of games before waking up with glaucoma one morning. He retired in July after it became clear that his vision would not come back.

This is the last time that I trust baseball information gained from discussions over bourbon on the rocks.

Actually, I think I heard this from sports radio. Oh well.

By the way, can anybody think up something interesting to do with my 1984 team USA Cory Snyder cards?

tmidgett wrote:Whispers about Puckett's mental state started not long after he was forced into retirement.

His physical state was obviously deteriorating in a dramatic fashion.

I wouldn't excuse beating on women, regardless, but if he did it, there may have been reasons for it beyond mere scumbaggery.

It seems to me that just the act of beating a woman, provoked or not, is unequivocally scumbaggish. Regardless if you believe it or not, a person doesn't rack up the profile that Puckett had if he wasn't a miserable human being. His wife and his mistress both alleged physical abuse including him holding a gun to his wife's head in front of their children, also he was arrested for dragging a woman in to a hotel bathroom and fondling her, and another woman who worked for the Twins threatened to sue him for sexual harassment before getting a settlement from them. Knowing what I know now about Puckett, I can't separate the great baseball player from the despicable piece of shit.