Company: Apple Computer

Maurice_Archive

Company: Apple Computer

toomanyhelicopters wrote:seriously, "Chooser"? what kinda stupid word is "Chooser"?

Funny, I just looked all over the interface of this machine, and there ain't no "Chooser." You're remembering OS 9 and earlier, I think. Yes, the old Mac OS was often crashy, depending on one's programs, configuration, etc.

OS X, by contrast, is *nix-like. It's very, very close to being FreeBSD (there are, apparently, various differences to people who know the inner workings of BSD and Darwin). Occasionally programs will become unstable and quit, but I've not had this affect the overall OS. I've had uptime measurable in weeks--and those uptimes ended not because of crashes, but because of system restarts after upgrades, or shutting the laptop down to take it here or there without draining the battery (although I do leave it in sleep mode much of the non-usage time). I can build and compile lots of open source code from the command line, or the nifty Xcode environment. (That's right, the command line.) I'm running a PHP (built from source)/mySQL/Apache development server. And blah blah blah stable for me, works just fine, blah blah blah.

As for which OS is "better" than which other, no one ever seems to ask "better for whom." If it's better for you--you like it, you know where things are, you can get work done in it, you feel comfortable, then hell--go use that. You like something else less, feel less comfortable with it, then don't use it and go find something else.

http://mauricerickard.com/ | http://onezeromusic.com/

Matthew Taylor_Archive

Company: Apple Computer

22 by Matthew Taylor_Archive

toomanyhelicopters wrote:man, re: stability, it bugs me to hear people still using the two main arguments that invaribly come up in the defense of macs as better than PCs

1) more stable

OSX is more stable than any variant of windows I have ever used, it's built on unix.

toomanyhelicopters wrote:the last mac i used personally crashed once every half hour because it was seriously lacking in memory and couldn't even handle photoshop.

Couldn't this be said about any computer seriously lacking memory?

toomanyhelicopters wrote:seriously, "Chooser"? what kinda stupid word is "Chooser"?

It's a word that went out with OS 9 about 4 years ago.

Why I say not crap:

Better OS software/hardware integration.

Virtual nonexistence of viruses, worms, spyware and adware.

Lack of serious security issues with hackers, if any are found, updates are quickly released.

Built-in ethernet.

Built-in wireless networking: both airport and bluetooth ready.

Strong resale value.

Has the best UI on the planet and I hear that OS 10.4 supposedly will feature linux compatibility.

Anyways enough of this tired old arguement, use what you use, drive an Audi or drive a Saturn, just stay out of the left lane, grandma.

warmowski_Archive

Company: Apple Computer

23 by warmowski_Archive

Crap - but not really due to the nearly-unjustifiable extra hardware expense or the irritatingly squooshy UI, both factors that make me cringe personally.

Crap because of the amazingly high ratio of creepy dolts among the user base who take Macs way, way, WAY too seriously as a platform. Over seventeen years of using Windows, MacOS and various flavors of Unix, I can't say that Windows/DOS or Unix user bases have produced anywhere near the kind of rabid jihad groupthink that Macs inspire.

Only the latest example: on a lark, some guy goes and fills a G5 case with a P4 motherboard and takes some pictures of the operation. A hardware-geek website publishes the pictures. The guy is buried with *hate mail* from Mac-quaida operatives. Get ready for some jaw-dropping overreaction:
http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,62157,00.html?tw=wn_culthead_7

I know too many perfectly normal, productive and well-adjusted people who use Macs to make any assumptions, but I can't help myself - when I walk into someone's place of business and I see one of those candy-colored boxes, I momentarily brace for the worst.

-r

p.s. - all that said, i still envy the natively low audio latency macs deliver.

Maurice_Archive

Company: Apple Computer

24 by Maurice_Archive

warmowski wrote:on a lark, some guy goes and fills a G5 case with a P4 motherboard and takes some pictures of the operation. A hardware-geek website publishes the pictures. The guy is buried with *hate mail* from Mac-quaida operatives.

Yeah, I honestly can't see that happening if someone swapped the guts of a Dell and a Gateway. Thing is, Apple is an intensely visible company that people watch, and the market share is tiny in proportion to the attention Apple gets. It also had absolutely shitty corporate culture and management for much of its life, particularly the Scully through the Amelio eras. (It may still have shitty culture in the corporate mothership--I dunno, personally--but at least they're putting out good products and making a profit now.) So for years, particularly throughout the 90s, Mac users kept seeing "Apple death watch" stories, along with reporting on genuinely boneheaded business strategies. (That'd be the time, resource, and financial investments in Copeland, Taligent, Pink, OpenDoc, and their subsequent shelving before being brought to market.)

If you in particular have a financial (you bought the machine and software), time (you learned how to use it and you're comfortable), and data investment in a platform, and it looks like it's going to disappear, that's a significant drag. Couple it with the constant negative reporting, and you end up with an "embattled fan" culture.

I'll note that over the last four years as the NeXT takeover of Apple really came to fruition (yes, I know, Apple bought NeXT, but who's in the driver's seat?) with the introduction of OS X (which now that I think about it has a lot of NeXTStep/OpenStep in it), that embattled fan element is often still howling at the abandonment of the beloved OS 9. You'll see this a lot from Mac audio people, as initially there weren't many audio applications for OS X. Now there are plenty, but there's still a great resistence from people who feel that they're being yanked out of a comfortable, familiar environment (OS 9) and thrust into the cold, harsh Unix world, where everything's wrong and different. I personally disagree, but there are those who don't--even within the set of all users of Apple equipment.

http://mauricerickard.com/ | http://onezeromusic.com/

Company: Apple Computer

25 by russ_Archive

Maurice wrote:I'm running a PHP (built from source)/mySQL/Apache development server.

I love this one. I must have heard the above line 50 times now from guys running OSX.

I consider myself a pretty late bandwagon jumper on the Linux front, but even I was running an Apache server w/ MySQL and PHP over two years ago on my laptop while I was building this site.

I'm happy that mac users are finally realizing how cool it is to have a webserver on your local machine, but please don't brag about it like you're the coolest and the computer you use is the coolest. It's not. And the majority of the features that you have on your overpriced ibook existed years ago. They just look prettier.

Ugh.

Company: Apple Computer

26 by russ_Archive

Intern_8033 wrote:I've been the "computer go to guy" for my friends and family for the last 10 years or so, meaning, when someone has a problem they ask me because I know more than average.

Since I switched to Apple about 4 years ago, I've influenced eight people to make the switch as well. All of them enjoy their Apple experience more. In three cases they bought an Apple to use in conjunction with a PC and ended up phasing out the PC completely within a year.

So you can make compelling arguments for the theory of one side of the other, but my real world experience has been that, given there is someone there to hold your hand when you have trouble or get confused, people enjoy working on an Apple more than Windows.

Just for kicks, in response to some of the arguments,

-The fact that there is an extremist faction of the Mac community isn't an argument for the Mac itself being inferior. Ralph Nader doesn't make universal health care bad. (that's an analogy)

-I look at the fact that Apple has limited hardware support as good. You never see discussions about "Optimizing your computer for audio" on the Mac and you don't have to research if your motherboard is going to be compatible with the Audio program you want to use. The Windows people have a hard job to make software that's compatbile with such a huge selection of hardware components, considering that, you have to figure they're doing a great job. But at the end of the day no one cares about the technical achievments of the software engineers, they just want their shit to work. Because Apple makes the Hardware and the OS, you can be sure that something will work with your machine, and if it doesn't it isn't hard to find out why, which brings me to my next point.

-Apples are infinitely easier to troubleshoot. The lack of hardware variability means that if you are having a problem, a lot of people have probably had the same problem. For example, the person who mentioned trouble witht their fonts, I've seen that before. Although you didn't say this, I'm pretty sure your friend must be running Quark for OS X. The new version of Quark has alot of bugs with font management. You should download Font Doctor and look for corrupted fonts.
There is rarely a problem on the Apple that can't be fixed with a quick internet search (the apple internet support community is excellent).

That's it!

Andrew

Andrew says all of this with a straight face while an old iMac (blueberry blue) sits behind my desk totally unusable and probably unfixable.

Let's face it. Macs rip off other peoples ideas, charge people with way too much money too much for their proprietary shit and get rich off of it.

The more this thread goes on, the more I hate the mac.

Oh, and nice post Wormowski.

Maurice_Archive

Company: Apple Computer

27 by Maurice_Archive

russ wrote:
Maurice wrote:I'm running a PHP (built from source)/mySQL/Apache development server.

I love this one....please don't brag about it like you're the coolest and the computer you use is the coolest. It's not.

Who's bragging? My point was that it's a usable machine now, like your Linux box, as opposed to the OS 9 world which didn't have as easy access to the open source world. I wouldn't have been able to say that about my machines running 9. If you perceive it to be a statement about you, that's your reading, but I'm talking about the difference between X and 9.

http://mauricerickard.com/ | http://onezeromusic.com/

Company: Apple Computer

28 by russ_Archive

Maurice wrote:
russ wrote:
Maurice wrote:I'm running a PHP (built from source)/mySQL/Apache development server.

I love this one....please don't brag about it like you're the coolest and the computer you use is the coolest. It's not.

Who's bragging? My point was that it's a usable machine now, like your Linux box, as opposed to the OS 9 world which didn't have as easy access to the open source world. I wouldn't have been able to say that about my machines running 9. If you perceive it to be a statement about you, that's your reading, but I'm talking about the difference between X and 9.

Please don't misquote me. If you look above at the original post, I said, "mac users" and then used the collective "you". Take it personal if you want to, but it wasn't meant that way.

Maurice_Archive

Company: Apple Computer

29 by Maurice_Archive

russ wrote:Please don't misquote me. If you look above at the original post, I said, "mac users" and then used the collective "you". Take it personal if you want to, but it wasn't meant that way.

You must admit that even the full quote

russ wrote:I'm happy that mac users are finally realizing how cool it is to have a webserver on your local machine, but please don't brag about it like you're the coolest and the computer you use is the coolest. It's not.

is ambiguous as to whom you mean by "you." I'll grant that you're talking about a stereotype, and not lumping me in with that. (One of my earlier posts also talks about stereotypical Mac zealots, btw.)

http://mauricerickard.com/ | http://onezeromusic.com/

toomanyhelicopters_Archive

Company: Apple Computer

30 by toomanyhelicopters_Archive

mathhew taylor said:

Virtual nonexistence of viruses, worms, spyware and adware.

Lack of serious security issues with hackers, if any are found, updates are quickly released.

now this is a fucking great point that i had totally forgotten. and i still can't figure out why it's true, but it definitely is. i mean, i understand why writing virii for mac is not nearly as popular as for PC, since there are so few mac users doing anything important (meaning that audio and video are not high-interest targets for hackers, not that audio and video aren't important things) but what i can't fathom is why there aren't crews of hackers out there writing virii for the mac. it seems like most mac owners don't even use antivirus software in the first place, since there aren't any virii. seems like mac users could be devastated by the right virus, which seemingly nobody would be prepared for since mac virii don't exist.

great point though

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