Oh, and it gets better, too. Perino let Helen Thomas ask a question. The Bushies will play the September 11 card whenever they are pushed on Iraq, and then the following day, they will deny linking Iraq to 9/11. It's a psycho ward over there.

Correspondent Helen Thomas asked Perino again if the "surge" was a change in policy.

"Certainly," Perino responded.

Thomas and Perino tangled after the Deputy Press Secretary referred to the possibility that America could be "hurt" by Iraqi-based terrorists in the event of withdrawal.

Perino said, "The terrorists that are seeking a safe haven in Iraq, if we were to leave, would find one, just like they have one in Afghanistan, and they can hurt us and..."

"How do you know that?" Thomas countered.

Perino responded, "Well, based on experience from September 11th. That's how we know it."

"September 11th had nothing to with Iraq," Thomas pointed out.

OK, it looks like the Shrubs are playing "the old shell game".

It's not this, its this no its this no its this wait its this etc. etc. etc.

God, I really hate these people. They have now made me invoke god, and I'm an atheist.

I now think I am going to withdraw from the rest of the world, and spend the rest of my days fishing in the deep woods. I can't stand this kind of insanity and bullshit. It just doesn't seem to end, and the sad thing is there doesn't really seem to be anyone out there, in political world, who wouldn't get sucked into this morass of bullshit and lies.

There is not a day that goes by where I don't think these thoughts.

clocker bob wrote:Oh, and it gets better, too. Perino let Helen Thomas ask a question. The Bushies will play the September 11 card whenever they are pushed on Iraq, and then the following day, they will deny linking Iraq to 9/11. It's a psycho ward over there.

Correspondent Helen Thomas asked Perino again if the "surge" was a change in policy.

"Certainly," Perino responded.

Thomas and Perino tangled after the Deputy Press Secretary referred to the possibility that America could be "hurt" by Iraqi-based terrorists in the event of withdrawal.

Perino said, "The terrorists that are seeking a safe haven in Iraq, if we were to leave, would find one, just like they have one in Afghanistan, and they can hurt us and..."

"How do you know that?" Thomas countered.

Perino responded, "Well, based on experience from September 11th. That's how we know it."

"September 11th had nothing to with Iraq," Thomas pointed out.

I just noticed the part I bolded above. The Bushies/Shrubs/shriveled weeds admit that terrorists have a safe haven in Afghanistan? Isn't that an admission of failure?

Mark Hansen wrote: The sad thing is there doesn't really seem to be anyone out there, in political world, who wouldn't get sucked into this morass of bullshit and lies.

Frankly, that's our fault- we leave the morass in place, so the jungle sucks in anyone who enters it, like Colonel Kurtz. No genuine reform can come from working inside the existing false left/right paradigm. We must take what it will give us by voting and by pressuring the Democrats, but we must also see that we cannot disconnect the Left from their corporate money, and we should treat the current state of mainstream politics as a sideshow, an obstacle that must be destroyed, not voted back into respectability. A new Left must take its place.

There is not a day that goes by where I don't think these thoughts.

It's incredibly painful. I know. But they are evil. We have to try and leave a better country behind when we go. We're not the last Americans.

clocker bob wrote: Frankly, that's our fault- we leave the morass in place, so the jungle sucks in anyone who enters it, like Colonel Kurtz. No genuine reform can come from working inside the existing false left/right paradigm. We must take what it will give us by voting and by pressuring the Democrats, but we must also see that we cannot disconnect the Left from their corporate money, and we should treat the current state of mainstream politics as a sideshow, an obstacle that must be destroyed, not voted back into respectability. A new Left must take its place.

We need a new left, a new right, a new up, and a new down. I'd prefer we ditch those terms altogether. "Liberal" and "conservative" might be vaguely useful in very limited circumstances.

I heard an amusing quip about the difference between politics and government the other day, but now it escapes me.

Mark Hansen wrote:I just noticed the part I bolded above. The Bushies/Shrubs/shriveled weeds admit that terrorists have a safe haven in Afghanistan? Isn't that an admission of failure?

YES. That is the tightrope they are on, the tightrope of perpetual war and a perpetual war economy. The point of modern war is not to bring peace, but to create the need for more war. Open ended war is the goal. So, the tightrope is- they can neither do too well or too poorly. When they occupy Iraq and Afghanistan, the objective is to create a quagmire that sucks in defense budgets for years and years. A beaten enemy translates to reduced defense spending.

Once you grasp this agenda, Bush/Cheney become in our eyes what their financial backers already see them as: masterful war tacticians. The USA has the most advanced military on earth, and yet we have fought the Taliban and al Sadr's army to a standstill for five years! Pop the champagne corks! These past five years of mishandled ( the public's view ) wars have set the table for five more years, to rid these regions of the terrorists we have bred. That is modern military victory: to make the public at home think that we are in an endless struggle, Oceania style, and that more death and destruction is the only road out.

Aneurhythmia wrote:We need a new left, a new right, a new up, and a new down.

I guarantee you won't be the one bringing the ideas we need to create them- you still see the current system so favorably, you yammer on about a screenshot for two days rather than admit to yourself that your government strongarms the corporate media into killing unfavorable stories. Go spout some more psuedo shit about art in the Pitchfork thread.

clocker bob wrote:

Aneurhythmia wrote:We need a new left, a new right, a new up, and a new down.

I guarantee you won't be the one bringing the ideas we need to create them- you still see the current system so favorably, you yammer on about a screenshot for two days rather than admit to yourself that your government strongarms the corporate media into killing unfavorable stories. Go spout some more psuedo shit about art in the Pitchfork thread.

Oh, Bob, flattery will get you everywhere.
To be fair, not only have you not been exposed to any of my constructive ideas, but neither have I been exposed to yours. If you want to cite my lack of loyalty to your position as evidence of loyalty to a specific other position, that's absurd, but then so is attempting to communicate with me by constantly hurling invectives.

Aneurhythmia wrote:Oh, Bob, flattery will get you everywhere.

I do not care to persuade you. I think you are a time-wasting blowhard ignoramus- is that clear enough?

aneu wrote:attempting to communicate with me by constantly hurling invectives.

I don't want to communicate with you. You keep appearing in threads that I begin, inserting useless noise. Therefore, I must deal with you. I do not go looking for you in other threads. Do you not get this?