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Rick Reuben wrote:

Marsupialized wrote:I want no laws regarding abortion, you are right.

A guy walks up behind a woman who is eight months pregnant and shoots her dead. Baby dies too. How many murder charges? One or two?

Either one is fine. He'll get many years, possibly death either way. Honestly, I'd probably say one. He killed a pregnant woman.

What if it was an ugly woman carrying a retarded baby?

GBH or assault with intent.

Rick Reuben wrote:

Marsupialized wrote:Either one is fine. He'll get many years, possibly death either way. Honestly, I'd probably say one. He killed a pregnant woman.

Okay. Guy walks up to a woman eight months pregnant, slugs her across the belly with a baseball bat, baby dies, but not her. Murder charge?

Are you feeling him out to see where he thinks the law should be drawn? In certain circumstances that would carry a federal murder charge, and in most cases (it varies by state) it would not be considered murder, tho it would be considered an assault on the woman, and probably punished eagerly.

ANYWAY, getting back to Obama and the christianists, he needs to realize that they've already made up their little "god said it, I believe it, that settles it" minds, and it can only hurt him in the long run to suck up to any of these fanatics.

nearly four years ago, Nicholas von Hoffman wrote:What’s being asked of the religiously nonaligned is more than the respectful, if somewhat insincere, doffing of the hat toward the faith of others. This is not about some goofy debate over taking "under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance or complaining about the electric menorah in front of the public library. What’s going on here is intimidating people into uttering religious thoughts they do not mean and going along with the insertion of the religious interest and religious advantage into all and every aspect of public and institutional life.

full article:

Democrats Should Oppose Empowering the Pious

unsaved wrote:ANYWAY, getting back to Obama and the christianists, he needs to realize that they've already made up their little "god said it, I believe it, that settles it" minds, and it can only hurt him in the long run to suck up to any of these fanatics.

Except that Obama is a Christian. I think he's involved with this at least partially because he feels like reaching out to his fellow Christians and partially just because they're a voting bloc like any other.

It sucks that they're a traditionally conservative bloc whose minds are generally set in stone but any candidate who falls in line with their beliefs is going to attempt to court their vote, simply because it's the savvy thing to do. As a Christian myself I can generally say I'm embarrassed by these people but I can't disregard their right to vote and I can't disregard their beliefs, I can only attempt to open some kind of dialogue with them.

Obama is doing what he thinks he needs to do to win the election, and to be perfectly honest he's doing something entirely reasonable. Criticizing him for attending a debate simply because it's held in a church and moderated by a dude who wrote a companion piece to The Secret is ludicrous.

Rick Reuben wrote:

Johnny 13 wrote: I expect that within a relationship there should be some discussion, or what is the reason for coupling long term.

So we agree. A man is entitled to offer his opinion on the abortion.

Not entitled. It is his responsibility to know what she will do about a pregnancy before she gets pregnant. This works both ways. A man who does not want to be a father, should know that a woman will carry to term if their birth control should fail. The woman owns her body, and must not be compelled to remain pregnant against her will. I am saying that people in love should talk to each other. It is a time to reiterate what both should already know.

My wife and I had a pregnancy scare recently. I love my daughter, but neither of us want another child. My wife would never consider an abortion except perhaps if it was shown that the child would end up with CF, or be profoundly broken. I have known this about my wife since before I started sleeping with her 15 years ago. I respect my wife's autonomy, and I love her. We talked about what this would mean, and began to imagine what kind of changes we would have to make to accommodate another child. It was a false alarm. I was not entitled to anything here, any more than I am entitled to share our bed. Our union is voluntary. She knows my opinions, and I know where their power ends.

I had a different opinion at the beginning of this thread then I do now.

In my eyes, of course the woman makes the call if you aren't married. It seems like a given to me. Fuck the guy. Not pulling out doesn't all of a sudden mean you own a woman's life.

The other situation; what if I were married and my wife decided to abort the kid we'd started. It sucks, but I think it's totally her right. I'm sorry for the husband,but it ain't his body. It's shitty, but he can always divorce the fuck out of her.