Hey Brad....I wasn't pointing the "rock star" finger at you. I'd strayed way off course by then. By posting/asking the question in the first place, you are simply looking for the correct thing to do.
later,
m
Hole or no hole, kick drum micing
22Lehabs, no problem. About the recording situation, I have actually done that to myself. In my little home studio. I have recorded tracks listened to them and did one of two things, adjust the mic position, or adjust my playing. I realize there are situations where I am incapable of hearing what another person may hear. It is our own bias and selective hearing.
Hole or no hole, kick drum micing
24I play an Artist Maple series Premier with a closed kick head and i bring a Sennheiser E602 with me incase the soundguy needs to get rid of boomyness.
Has worked sofar and moste people take no offense in me replacing their mic with my own.
The Sennheiser sounds alittle to compact to my liking but it's still better than having the soundguy eqing the crap out of a misplaced D112.
It's not perfect but it's a reasonable solution iff things have to go fast (wich is often the case).
I would never ever cut a hole in my babys head, no man.
Has worked sofar and moste people take no offense in me replacing their mic with my own.
The Sennheiser sounds alittle to compact to my liking but it's still better than having the soundguy eqing the crap out of a misplaced D112.
It's not perfect but it's a reasonable solution iff things have to go fast (wich is often the case).
I would never ever cut a hole in my babys head, no man.
Peter
Hole or no hole, kick drum micing
25im curious...how big are these venues you guys are talking about?
arenas or something? i saw that you mentioned a fest mr. lepik.
was it mobile bay fest? i had a bad experience with playing bass
when we played springfest here in pensacola. the sound guy was a
complete dildo. thats a whole other story. i wont get into it.
as far as drumming. i think ive only had my whole set microphoneded twice in my life. i usually get annoyed with the mics and knock them out of my way.
arenas or something? i saw that you mentioned a fest mr. lepik.
was it mobile bay fest? i had a bad experience with playing bass
when we played springfest here in pensacola. the sound guy was a
complete dildo. thats a whole other story. i wont get into it.
as far as drumming. i think ive only had my whole set microphoneded twice in my life. i usually get annoyed with the mics and knock them out of my way.
Hole or no hole, kick drum micing
26Max,
I like your post. Your maturity far outweighs my desire to have great kick at any cost.
Good on you.
bdp
I like your post. Your maturity far outweighs my desire to have great kick at any cost.
Good on you.
bdp
Hole or no hole, kick drum micing
27alexdamon wrote:im curious...how big are these venues you guys are talking about?
arenas or something? i saw that you mentioned a fest mr. lepik.
was it mobile bay fest? i had a bad experience with playing bass
when we played springfest here in pensacola. the sound guy was a
complete dildo. thats a whole other story. i wont get into it.
as far as drumming. i think ive only had my whole set microphoneded twice in my life. i usually get annoyed with the mics and knock them out of my way.
It was Mobile Bayfest. I play with The Tiles over here in Mobile. I went to your website and recognized some of the people you played with, The McCarthy era, though I have not seen them. Also, Rachel Greene didn't she play bass for Cockfight? They did a show with us, but she was no longer in the band.
Back to the topic; i think I will get a new front head with the smallest hole I can put in the bottom corner. Maybe a 4 or five inch hole. When I have done it before it really had a minimal effect. Though I prefer not to have the hole, I believe it is a good compromise.
Hole or no hole, kick drum micing
28Hey Brad:
Although I think sound guys should shut up and not boss the band around, you're going to run into fuckstick guys more often than you'd like.
I would recommend putting the hole in the center or near the center of the head. At the edge of the drum, the difference in rigidity between the two sides of the hole will be considerable (the bit toward the middle will move more), and this will encourage a tear.
Another thing to be careful of is the cleanliness of the hole -- don't cut it while mounted, and cut it in one slice with a razor blade, working slowly to meet one end with the other. It isn't a bad idea to use a cup or ashtray or something as a cutting guide to make sure you don't slip. When you're done, use some sandpaper to smooth the cut edge -- even small nicks or burrs will be enough to start a tear, and once a tear starts, you can't do anything to stop it, short of making the hole bigger.
There are little stick-on donut things you can use to dress-up the edge of the hole, but I've never liked the way the extra weight makes the head sound.
Oh, and make sure you paint a rabbit or donkey on the head, with the hole as his anus. Sound guys respond well to cartoon animal asshole humor.
Although I think sound guys should shut up and not boss the band around, you're going to run into fuckstick guys more often than you'd like.
I would recommend putting the hole in the center or near the center of the head. At the edge of the drum, the difference in rigidity between the two sides of the hole will be considerable (the bit toward the middle will move more), and this will encourage a tear.
Another thing to be careful of is the cleanliness of the hole -- don't cut it while mounted, and cut it in one slice with a razor blade, working slowly to meet one end with the other. It isn't a bad idea to use a cup or ashtray or something as a cutting guide to make sure you don't slip. When you're done, use some sandpaper to smooth the cut edge -- even small nicks or burrs will be enough to start a tear, and once a tear starts, you can't do anything to stop it, short of making the hole bigger.
There are little stick-on donut things you can use to dress-up the edge of the hole, but I've never liked the way the extra weight makes the head sound.
Oh, and make sure you paint a rabbit or donkey on the head, with the hole as his anus. Sound guys respond well to cartoon animal asshole humor.
steve albini
Electrical Audio
sa at electrical dot com
Quicumque quattuor feles possidet insanus est.
Electrical Audio
sa at electrical dot com
Quicumque quattuor feles possidet insanus est.
Hole or no hole, kick drum micing
29brad lepik wrote:I have always perferred the sound of a kick drum with no hole in the front head. Every once in a while I will come upon a sound man who tells me I need to put a whole in the front head. Well, I have done this before and have replaced numerous front heads because the sound man will let the cable touch the edge of the hole and it ends up splitting the head. I got tired of replacing heads.
Anyways, I have not really had a problem with the sound myself. I have let other people use my kit and it sounds fine to me. Sometimes I think it might just be a lack of skill on the soundman's part. I remember back in the 80's and early 90's when every soundman told me I needed to put some duct tape on the toms. They tell me they cannot get any punch out of the kick. Well, I have run sound on occassion and have not really had this problem, recording or live.
The kick is a 22" Remo Powerstroke 3 on back, nothing in the drum, a 3 inch strip of white felt under the front coated head. Other drummers seem to think it sounds great. It is usually red neck soundman who tell me "You need to put a hole in the front, so I can put the mic in there."
Am I being stuborn? Do I need to cut a hole in the head, or do they need to learn how to deal with it? I will need to get a new head. I have a 1970 Slingerland and it is the original head. I do not want to put a hole in it.
Would this work?
http://tralfaz-archives.com/coverart/D/damned_roseb.jpg
I <3 meat hod.
Hole or no hole, kick drum micing
30Bob Weston wrote:Hows about we put hole in your head, Mr Soundman?
bob
That would be silly.
I think holes, no holes or no front skins at all depend on the music, the playing style and the veneu.
Less than a week ago I was doing sound for a band from Leeds - great drummer, by the way.
He plays without a hole in his bassdrum's front skin and it sounded excellent. All I had to do was to pull up the kick channel's fader and it sounded perfect for the music.
bdp, believe you me: I like "great" kick sounds.
I've recorded some kick drums with intact front skins that made me really happy.
But there are more badly tuned kick drums on the planet's stages than you'd probably think.
I've never in my life asked someone to cut a hole in his front skin. I've once asked a guy to take one of the three blankets out of his kick drum, so I had some space to shove a mic in his drum. He didn't have a monkey painted on the thing, by the way.
Max
Last edited by max_Archive on Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:59 am, edited 2 times in total.