I actually modded my Direct outs to be Pre fader. Makes them a little cleaner and then I can make a mix on the faders for what I want to hear in the control room without affecting what is being recorded. I set level with the gain knob and can monitor off the faders. To each his own. I also use the aux mixes for headphones. On A&H boards it is just a jumper you got to solder. pretty annoying but not hard to do. You can change if the point is pre or post EQ as well, mine are post. So Pre and EQ go to CPU, Fader mix is just to listen.
Is that post or pre the preamp section? A lot of mixers are just DI out which makes them useless as preamps.
on Allen and Heath boards the signal flow is Preamp > EQ > AUX (so EQ does affect aux sends) > Fader > Direct Out by default. There are jumpers on each CH that let you move the Out point to be pre fader, and also pre EQ ( you could take the Direct out pre EQ, post Preamp if you wanted to). So it goes Mic Pre > EQ > Direct Out (which is a paralleled path) > Aux mixes (also Paradelle) > Fader the way I have mine set up. This way the Direct outs are a tap from the preamp/EQ but the fader does not affect the level going out of the direct. By Default, if you move the faders, it will trim the level going out of the D Outs. There is also a jumper that lets you take the AUX sends pre EQ so the Channel EQ does not affect the aux sends, handy if you are sending to a separate mixer for monitor feeds on stage or whatever.
I've never used a board where the Direct Outs were pre-preamp at all. Are you saying they literally just loop out the input? cause I've never run into that.
When I was trying to do this I checked out the manuals for every mixer I found in my price range that had direct outs, and as far as I could tell they bypassed every control. You might not want Eq but at least hi pass and gain are useful, and unless I totally misread all those manuals the direct outs were tapped right from the input. But from what you’re saying, Allen & Heath mixers aren’t like that.
Re: Preamps
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:15 pm
by numberthirty
SurfySpark wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:29 pm
I don't want no dang eq on the direct outs! Just preamp out. I'm liking these Allen & Heaths! Those Midas boards are huuuuuuge, and expensive!
To get back to preamps, my pal who worked in a studio was telling me that the various fancy preamp uses were sort of brand-specific. Some are way out of my price range, but I'm definitely interested in getting at least a handful of preamps. The 500 series power supply thing is also interesting.
Here's the list, please chime in with opinions, especially if you disagree:
API - crisp, not warm, drums or organ
Universal Audio - warm tubey goodness, good for all
Neve - warmer, kick or toms
Trident 80B - all around, even and nice. Horns like em
Grace Design m802 - all around good but not for vocals. I hate the interface menu one knob crap tho.
Telefunken V72 - vocals and piano
To me?
Sounds like "Ad Guy..." copy.
FM Losthighway really did the "Deep Dive..." on this, and seemingly came out the other side thinking "It's All About The Same..."
That API bit specifically?
Van Halen's records recorded at Sunset Sound after the first record were all done on an API console. I don't think anyone who can bring themselves to use "Warm..." when it comes to this sort of thing would make a case for that those records sound fundamentally "Crisp..." and not "Warm..."
(Sorry for being such a "TONE..."/"Mojo..." Grinch. That one just really, really stuck out...)
Re: Preamps
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:30 pm
by numberthirty
(Ok... Try to actually be helpful...)
If I was someone that those names you mentioned actually mattered to much?
I might think over trying to track down a used Oram Octasonic to try. The details are in this article. I'm fine with the one I bought used. The one obvious thing is folks seeming taking issue with the onboard "Phase..." switch. If that won't be an issue for you, might be worth looking into.
I tend to doubt that there is even a "Faygo Root Beer..." to "A&W Root Beer..." jump in quality as far as getting sound into your recorder with the Oram.
You might wind up feeling differently,
Re: Preamps
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:47 pm
by SurfySpark
numberthirty wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:15 pmSounds like "Ad Guy..." copy.
It sure does, but it's actually me forcing my pal to describe his feelings about them. I wanted to see if anyone here agreed or disagreed. I personally have not messed with outboard preamps so I can only be open to information. It does not seem crazy to think that there really isn't a huge difference between all of them.
I think I'm gonna get an analog Allen & Heath board and a few API preamps. Maybe a UA tube one also. And then call it a day.
Thank you all for your thoughts!
Re: Preamps
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:32 pm
by numberthirty
Man...
After giving this and the fact that you want to steer clear of a computer some thought?
The Empirical Labs F.A.T.S.O. Jr came to mind. While I think that there is a "Virtual..." version of it for use with DAWs now? The hardware unit was designed a little ways back with some of what it feels like you are talking about in mind.
I do know that it is one of the few(well, outside of guitar/bass amps...) bits of "Pricey..." equipment that I thought actually almost justified what you had to invest in it. Does a handful of different things. That said, the "Compression..." aspect doesn't give you a huge amount of control. Not sure what one goes for these days(or used...)
numberthirty wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:32 pmEmpirical Labs
Wow! I love these. Yes. I have to get a Fatso and two Distressors now. Well not right now but when I restore my savings! THANKS for this, these look awesome. First the Allen & Heath board, then some preamps, then these.
Those 500 series power supplies look super intimidating.
Re: Preamps
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:03 am
by eephus
I have the UA thing that is 4 mic ins and 4 line ins and an Audient 8-channel mic pre.
We use the UA for guitars and bass and vocals and kick and snare and the Audient mostly for stuff like toms and drum overheads and room mics. I think.
I literally never think about the setup, and it always sounds great. Bulletproof. not dorking around with stuff all the time. Good investment.
I have three of the Seventh Circle preamps. A fake Neve, a fake John Hardy, and something else. I only ever use the fake John Hardy, which I use on vocals almost always and sometimes acoustic guitar and stuff like that. Just a good, clean but beefy sound.
Re: Preamps
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:33 am
by Kniferide
ChudFusk wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:08 pm
When I was trying to do this I checked out the manuals for every mixer I found in my price range that had direct outs, and as far as I could tell they bypassed every control. You might not want Eq but at least hi pass and gain are useful, and unless I totally misread all those manuals the direct outs were tapped right from the input. But from what you’re saying, Allen & Heath mixers aren’t like that.
I know for a fact mackie, soundcraft, crest, midas analog boards from the 90s thru the digital explosion work the same way. Maybe some don't have the jumper points but they are all post pre post eq direct out points. Again, I've never ran into a board where the directs were just looping the input pre preamp, but om not saying it doesn't exist. It is the reason split snakes exist though.
Re: Preamps
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:49 am
by Mickey242
A mic into a pre amp is the front end. They are the most important factors.