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Re: Politics
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:54 pm
by jfv
enframed wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:41 pm
Have we ever sent the Speaker of the House to another country in a situation with such hostility?
Gingrich, then speaker, visited Taiwan in 1997.
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1997/04/02 ... 859957200/
...immediately after visiting China and telling them that the USA would intervene to defend Taiwan.
https://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/31/worl ... aiwan.html (sorry it's behind NYT paywall)
Anyway, I certainly understand your points and concern. Probably little chance that I'll convince you otherwise, particularly online, so I'll stop here.
Re: Politics
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:18 am
by Gramsci
jfv wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:20 pm
Pelosi visiting Taiwan = right thing to do
I love that island.
Only if you have a death wish. I used to think Trump was going to get us all killed now I’m sure it’s people that read Vox.
Re: Politics
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:09 am
by Gramsci
pldms wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:44 am
Gramsci wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:32 pm
Everyone enjoying a parade of talentless ghouls lining up to be Prime Minister of Great Britain and Northern Ireland…?
I'll never tire of watching "the most sophisticated electorate in the world" (aka the parliamentary tory party, according to parliamentary tory party) reveal this phrase to mean: a bunch of immoral backstabbers getting so drunk on plotting and assassination that they almost invariably end up with the candidate
none of them wanted.
This time the right have offered quite a number of swivel-eyed loons who keep spewing phrases they've learned from the internet - "wokeness", "cancel culture", "cultural marxism" - that are pretty meaningless to most regular tories. And they're now panicking that their candidates aren't doing well and have decided to transparently wage war on someone who might be their best chance of winning the next election.
So sit back an enjoy "the most sophisticated electorate in the world" working very hard to lose the next election.
After living in the UK for twenty years I’ve come to the conclusion this country suffers from a unique form of mass psychosis. Watching the BBC for five minutes is like watching Inter-dimensional TV on Rick & Morty. Stuck in a weird parallel world that’s almost like reality but enough off to generate Uncanny Valley.
As for "the most sophisticated electorate in the world"… probably some of the dumbest and insane people living on this planet.
Re: Politics
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:19 am
by jfv
Gramsci wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:18 am
jfv wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:20 pm
Pelosi visiting Taiwan = right thing to do
I love that island.
Only if you have a death wish. I used to think Trump was going to get us all killed now I’m sure it’s people that read Vox.
I'm sure the people of Ukraine now wish that more was done to support them before Russia invaded.
Re: Politics
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:54 am
by Gramsci
jfv wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:19 am
Gramsci wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:18 am
jfv wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:20 pm
Pelosi visiting Taiwan = right thing to do
I love that island.
Only if you have a death wish. I used to think Trump was going to get us all killed now I’m sure it’s people that read Vox.
I'm sure the people of Ukraine now wish that more was done to support them before Russia invaded.
Maybe Ukraine shouldn’t have integrated the Azov Battalion into their military
Oh how times change…
https://time.com/5926750/azov-far-right ... -facebook/
Arming Ukraine and threatening the balance in Eastern Europe via Nato expansion is literally the justification Putin gave for his illegal invasion.
Seriously, “liberal” interventionism will start WWIII
Re: Politics
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:52 pm
by Dovira
Gramsci wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:54 am
jfv wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:19 am
Gramsci wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:18 am
Only if you have a death wish. I used to think Trump was going to get us all killed now I’m sure it’s people that read Vox.
I'm sure the people of Ukraine now wish that more was done to support them before Russia invaded.
Maybe Ukraine shouldn’t have integrated the Azov Battalion into their military
Oh how times change…
https://time.com/5926750/azov-far-right ... -facebook/
Arming Ukraine and threatening the balance in Eastern Europe via Nato expansion is literally the justification Putin gave for his illegal invasion.
Seriously, “liberal” interventionism will start WWIII
You're absolutely fucking braindead. A nation is fighting a defensive war against an invasion, and providing modest material support for the defender is apparently retroactively making yourself responsible for the invasion, even setting the stage for World War 3.
"NATO expansion" meaning Ukraine has wished to join NATO - having good reason to, as it turns out - something which hasn't even actually happened yet.
No actual intervention has taken place, as you well know.
That is indeed the justification Putin gave, because he is conducting propaganda to pull support from the European population (of which he already has a not insignificant amount).
Stop being an idiot.
Re: Politics
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:24 pm
by Dovira
I really don't understand how this idea has gained so much traction among western left-wingers, this panic over fanning the flames of conflict, this despairing defeatism - on the unrequested behalf of another nation - posturing as sober objectivity. Even Varoufakis has bought into it. Incomprehensible.
Re: Politics
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:56 pm
by zorg
There were plenty of think pieces about this well ahead of time, so it’s not a new idea. This is from 2016.
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/l ... story.html
There is also the issue of massive goverment corruption that everyone is a bit ashamed to bring up. Mr Zelensky himself was in some hot water about his off-shore accounts. So totally sympathize with the Ukranian people, who sre pawns of the usual shitheads, but its best to realize there is plenty of blame to go around, otherwise.
Re: Politics
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:59 pm
by Curry Pervert
kokorodoko wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:52 pm
Stop being an idiot.
Take your own advice.
NATO is the US expansionist war machine. The US has been fucking around in Ukraine for a long time. Many advisors and political scientists said that this would happen.
Stop drinking the foreign policy kool aid.
https://www.economist.com/by-invitation ... ian-crisis
Re: Politics
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:23 pm
by Frankie99
I dunno man, as long as there are borders I think people will find a way to fight wars. As long as there are resource needs and an international supply chain that feeds governments and corporations, there will be “reasons” to fight wars.
If you think that Russia was only going to do this when certain specific events occurred, I’m gonna disagree. They picked their reasons from a large pre-populated menu of reasons, retconned those into “justifications” and began the war.
Figuring out who did what in an international pissing match that’s been going on for multiple administrations across the globe isn’t really comfort for anyone.
