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Excellent post, steve. Re: SMART Recovery, yes it's secular and evidence-based. Not ubiquitous like AA but worth finding a group if 12-step programs don't feel right.

catwoman wrote:andyman wrote:Going to a support meeting might not be the worst idea. You'll have people local to you that've likely been through what you're going through (plus way more), who can probably advise.If this was a reply to me, I will say I do not want to venture into the land of AA. Some other support group might work for me, but I am strongly averse to the AA tenet of a "greater power". I've been actively looking at non-theistic support groups.There are some atheist/agnostic AA meetings in Chicago--no praying or theistic higher power stuff. Also some of the ones I've been to that weren't labeled as non-religious were still very light on it--one group can be entirely different from the next. I used to go to Refuge Recovery meetings, which are sort of Buddhist influenced but generally free of religion in any kind of organized sense. There's a brief meditation, reading portion, and then an open discussion. No pressure to read or even speak, which I always liked. I believe SMART recovery is non-religious or at least has some non-religious groups, but I've never been to any. I've heard good things though.

catwoman wrote:I'm at a point where I need to quit, but I'm really afraid of stopping cold turkey.Hey, all the love in the world is available to you, here and elsewhere. You knew me when I would drink and knew me when I quit, though I don't think I ever mentioned it, so I thought I'd share this with you specifically and with others who might get something out of it.I used to equate drinking with socializing, hanging out/playing music/making out with (our common) peer group, and with other enjoyable aspects of life. That was what kept me drinking when I did, the associations. I didn't want to not be around those people, do those things and have that fun.But I came to realize that nothing about those experiences required me to drink, and in fact drinking prevented me from getting the full measure of each of them. When I quit it was a relief, and every single one of those interactions got better. I mention this because you provide a context for your drinking: the unwinding, the sleep, the buzz... and I want you to know you still get to unwind, still get to sleep and can find other things to make your head buzz. I want you to know that these things that seem entangled with drinking exist on their own, and that once your body adjusts to the absence of alcohol you'll still have all of those things in your life.I don't have a sober date, because I just stopped drinking at some point, and I know we still hung out after that, so there's a good chance you saw me on the transition, and it may not have registered that anything changed. That's my point, that nothing has to change except the problems alcohol causes.I feel your reticence with AA, and believe me I get it. The "higher power" business seems silly, and it seems crazy to have to buy into something like that. The counter argument is that AA provides a sense of community and support that is unmatched by anything else on an institutional level -- at no cost -- and the steps, the sponsorship, the meetings... all of it, if you have a problem quitting on your own (I was lucky and didn't), then I don't know of anything that works better.If nothing else, the practice of attending meetings and acquainting yourself with the steps will give you perspective, which may help your resolve.I used to be the odd man out with the not-drinking thing, but I was just in the company of a big group of smart, capable people, all of us enjoying life and each other, and it dawned on me that more than half of us were non-drinkers. Not that anybody made a point of it, it just isn't nearly as universal as I remembered it being, and I don't think you, or your peers and your experiences will necessarily feel any different if you're not drinking.Good luck, keep us posted.

catwoman wrote:I'm at a point where I need to quit, but I'm really afraid of stopping cold turkey.Hey, all the love in the world is available to you, here and elsewhere. You knew me when I would drink and knew me when I quit, though I don't think I ever mentioned it, so I thought I'd share this with you specifically and with others who might get something out of it.I used to equate drinking with socializing, hanging out/playing music/making out with (our common) peer group, and with other enjoyable aspects of life. That was what kept me drinking when I did, the associations. I didn't want to not be around those people, do those things and have that fun.But I came to realize that nothing about those experiences required me to drink, and in fact drinking prevented me from getting the full measure of each of them. When I quit it was a relief, and every single one of those interactions got better. I mention this because you provide a context for your drinking: the unwinding, the sleep, the buzz... and I want you to know you still get to unwind, still get to sleep and can find other things to make your head buzz. I want you to know that these things that seem entangled with drinking exist on their own, and that once your body adjusts to the absence of alcohol you'll still have all of those things in your life.I don't have a sober date, because I just stopped drinking at some point, and I know we still hung out after that, so there's a good chance you saw me on the transition, and it may not have registered that anything changed. That's my point, that nothing has to change except the problems alcohol causes.I feel your reticence with AA, and believe me I get it. The "higher power" business seems silly, and it seems crazy to have to buy into something like that. The counter argument is that AA provides a sense of community and support that is unmatched by anything else on an institutional level -- at no cost -- and the steps, the sponsorship, the meetings... all of it, if you have a problem quitting on your own (I was lucky and didn't), then I don't know of anything that works better.If nothing else, the practice of attending meetings and acquainting yourself with the steps will give you perspective, which may help your resolve.I used to be the odd man out with the not-drinking thing, but I was just in the company of a big group of smart, capable people, all of us enjoying life and each other, and it dawned on me that more than half of us were non-drinkers. Not that anybody made a point of it, it just isn't nearly as universal as I remembered it being, and I don't think you, or your peers and your experiences will necessarily feel any different if you're not drinking.Good luck, keep us posted.

steve wrote:I feel your reticence with AA, and believe me I get it. The "higher power" business seems silly, and it seems crazy to have to buy into something like that. The counter argument is that AA provides a sense of community and support that is unmatched by anything else on an institutional level -- at no cost -- and the steps, the sponsorship, the meetings... all of it, if you have a problem quitting on your own (I was lucky and didn't), then I don't know of anything that works better.If nothing else, the practice of attending meetings and acquainting yourself with the steps will give you perspective, which may help your resolve.I was also fortunate to quit without an organized method or group. I know AA people though.The reason to go to AA is also the reason not to go to AA: their whole program is built around a very Christian idea, that you, as an individual, are weak and evil and prone to sin. They teach you not to trust your own judgement. Since God is unlikely to intervene in your recovery, they also set you up with a group and a sponsor. These are people you can turn to them when your own judgement is leading you to start drinking again, so they can say catchphrases at you, and tell you that you are about to start backsliding, and tell you their own stories about backsliding.Some people need that, or something like it.Some people don't need that. There are other groups that are less religious in nature and have structures that don't mirror the sin-and-redemption thing. They tend to be smaller and maybe a bit harder to find, but living in a major city should make that a little easier.

biscuitdough wrote:steve wrote:I feel your reticence with AA, and believe me I get it. The "higher power" business seems silly, and it seems crazy to have to buy into something like that. The counter argument is that AA provides a sense of community and support that is unmatched by anything else on an institutional level -- at no cost -- and the steps, the sponsorship, the meetings... all of it, if you have a problem quitting on your own (I was lucky and didn't), then I don't know of anything that works better.If nothing else, the practice of attending meetings and acquainting yourself with the steps will give you perspective, which may help your resolve.The reason to go to AA is also the reason not to go to AA: their whole program is built around a very Christian idea, that you, as an individual, are weak and evil and prone to sin. Respectfully: that is a very broad idea, also typical of Eastern philosophies that have nothing to do with christianity. AA are about spirituality unrelated to religion. And the notion of a "higher will" can be maintained even in a secular perspective, one does not need a god or divine transcendence for that.Something to meditate upon when choosing to seek for help.

steve wrote:catwoman wrote:I'm at a point where I need to quit, but I'm really afraid of stopping cold turkey.Hey, all the love in the world is available to you, here and elsewhere. You knew me when I would drink and knew me when I quit, though I don't think I ever mentioned it, so I thought I'd share this with you specifically and with others who might get something out of it.I actually always thought you were a non-drinker, so maybe I never noticed that you were ever boozed up, if you were. Thank you for adding to the convo, and thanks for the support.Some of this may have to do with the loss of those social connections and activities that we all shared back in the day. At some point I lost all those connections, and my social withdrawal has a lot to do with this current thing I'm grappling with. Aloneness (not to be confused with loneliness) makes it easy to become apathetic. I'm not dead yet, so I figure I've got to get back into living instead of just existing.