Premier Rock Forum

El Protoolio wrote:

DrAwkward wrote:I think the difference that needs to be addressed here is that recording bands is Steve's day job, while Shellac is his hobby

Doesn't his day job enable his hobby?

But his day job is on a different level than his band, presumably. He may record for this or that band, for whatever label, but I doubt that would have an effect on his "hobby".

You fellows know that crummy old "Confusion is Next" book? Well, there is a bit in that where someone in Sonic Youth (Kim I think) explodes at someone else for questioning the Geffen deal by saying that they do it because they are American, and only Americans would truly understand why they want a corporate relationship. Like David Thomas with a Star Trek alternative-universe goatee.

This is bullshit, right? If that was true it is the only thing that would make me question my belief in Sonic Youth as awesome people.

A can totally buy Sonic Youth as the shite coffee-house version of the "underground", isn't this what they have been striving for since Dirty Boots?

El Protoolio wrote:

DrAwkward wrote:I think the difference that needs to be addressed here is that recording bands is Steve's day job, while Shellac is his hobby

Doesn't his day job enable his hobby?

Right, just like my day job enables mine.

The keyboardist/guitarist in my band is a Starbucks employee, and he is about to pour around $700 of his Starbucks paychecks into our new record. Does this make us evil? Sellouts?

EDIT: I'll take that one step farther. He recently joined the band, and we of course knew what he did for a living at the time. Should we also come under fire for hiring a Starbucks employee and letting him join the band?

The only difference here is that Steve Albini, the public indie "icon," is associated with both his day job and his hobby, whereas we are not.

Well, and we're also not famous.

This is the most exciting thread I've seen here in months. Thanks for starting this one. I was getting kind tired of Clocker Bob vs The World all the time. It's nice to read and talk about something else I care about besides the state of the world. That's what I came to the Premier Rock Forum for in the first place.

El Protoolio wrote:

Marsupialized wrote:

El Protoolio wrote:

Marsupialized wrote:Starbucks or no Starbucks you don't think Steve would record the next SY record if they paid him to?

If he did then he would be associating with the same christian child sausage makers as they do wouldn't he?

he'd just be doing his job

Sonic Youth is just doing theirs. It's hard for my opinion of Steve's music to be seperate from how he conducts his business. I think that's what Scott was trying to get at.

There was a similar conversation about this separation last week at poker, the separation between artist and art. I can come at it from any angle. I can love your music and hate you as a person, love you as a person and hate your music, love your songwriting but hate the timbre of your voice, love your work ethic but hate the end result of it, etc. There's a million different combinations for me.

My point wasn't that I can't separate my opinion of Steve as a guy, vs Steve as a member of Shellac, vs Steve as a recording engineer, vs Steve as a guy who manages his business affairs in one way or another. My point was that even a guy as respectable and ethical as Steve, even as much as I think he tries to work with folks he admires and respects, in the course of doing business, I feel like even he has to have worked with either some shitbags directly, or with people who are directly tied, by their choice, to shitbags.

I think there's all kinda grey and not just black and white. My question was whether it's worth considering association with douchebags through a middleman, or if the only association that matters is a direct one-to-one association.

Like, if you're gonna go hunting, and you buy a gun from a guy that makes guns by hand in his small rural home, just for hunters, that's super. What if you wanna go hunting, and you buy a gun from a gangbanger that buys his guns in bulk from some doude who just shot the family that lives down the street from you? That's a retarded example, but hopefully it shows what I'm trying to get at.

DrAwkward wrote:

El Protoolio wrote:

DrAwkward wrote:I think the difference that needs to be addressed here is that recording bands is Steve's day job, while Shellac is his hobby

Doesn't his day job enable his hobby?

Right, just like my day job enables mine.

The keyboardist/guitarist in my band is a Starbucks employee, and he is about to pour around $700 of his Starbucks paychecks into our new record. Does this make us evil? Sellouts?

The only difference here is that Steve Albini, the public indie "icon," is associated with both his day job and his hobby, whereas we are not.

Well, and we're also not famous.

I took that one back after reading Steve's distinction. I guess you quoted it quicker then I could delete it.

I understand the point now. I have no quibbles. And I'm famous in Sweden.

El Protoolio wrote: I was getting kind tired of Clocker Bob vs The World all the time.

I think everyone is sick of him.

From Steve's last comment, I can see how a best-of CD, for sale exclusively in a particular store, can be seen as similar to licensing music for advertising that store.

scott wrote:Like, if you're gonna go hunting, and you buy a gun from a guy that makes guns by hand in his small rural home, just for hunters, that's super. What if you wanna go hunting, and you buy a gun from a gangbanger that buys his guns in bulk from some doude who just shot the family that lives down the street from you? That's a retarded example, but hopefully it shows what I'm trying to get at.

I would buy whichever gun was cheaper, probably the gangbanger gun

where he got it has nothing to do with me

El Protoolio wrote:I took that one back after reading Steve's distinction. I guess you quoted it quicker then I could delete it.

I understand the point now. I have no quibbles. And I'm famous in Sweden.

Heh. I was wondering where the original post went!

scott wrote:I think there's all kinda grey and not just black and white. My question was whether it's worth considering association with douchebags through a middleman, or if the only association that matters is a direct one-to-one association.

Like i said earlier in the thread, this entire debate is a question of where in the sand we as individuals personally draw our own lines. It's fun to hear everyone's reasons for drawing theirs.