Linus Van Pelt wrote:

Chapter Two wrote:People are animals.

So? Just because "people" is a member of a larger class doesn't mean that we have to treat every member of that class the same way we treat humans.

Or, what do you eat? Remember, people are organisms.

'The way we treat humans' is a pretty wide-ranging set of behaviours. I'm not saying we have to treat animals the same way as we would humans, I'm saying that something not being part of our class doesn't give us a licence to play god with it.

Chapter Two wrote:

Linus Van Pelt wrote:

Chapter Two wrote:People are animals.

So? Just because "people" is a member of a larger class doesn't mean that we have to treat every member of that class the same way we treat humans.

Or, what do you eat? Remember, people are organisms.

'The way we treat humans' is a pretty wide-ranging set of behaviours. I'm not saying we have to treat animals the same way as we would humans, I'm saying that something not being part of our class doesn't give us a licence to play god with it.

Even if we created them, like for instance, a breed of dog.

Cranius wrote:

Chapter Two wrote:

Linus Van Pelt wrote:

Chapter Two wrote:People are animals.

So? Just because "people" is a member of a larger class doesn't mean that we have to treat every member of that class the same way we treat humans.

Or, what do you eat? Remember, people are organisms.

'The way we treat humans' is a pretty wide-ranging set of behaviours. I'm not saying we have to treat animals the same way as we would humans, I'm saying that something not being part of our class doesn't give us a licence to play god with it.

Even if we created them, like for instance, a breed of dog.

Hmmm. I'm in danger here of pushing the hippy line all the way to the end, which would be a devil's advocate move rather than where I actually stand on this, which is something I'm finding out during the course of this discussion. I used to be very pro-animal rights, so those views come most easily to my mind, even though they may not be what I currently believe. Acting in this way is a trait that annoys me when I see it in others: the pre-programmed response, so I shall desist immediately.

I also used to be a full-time anti-capitalist anarcho-activist. Now I'm a full-time librarian with a 4-track. That, to me, is progress.

Bollocks - let's put 'em all on an island and nuke em! Maybe we could throw the Je...

Please could anyone tell me of the vicious/dangerous/should be annihilated off the planet factor for the English Bull Terrier? These:



Because I've been labouring under the delusion that these were the dogs you were referring to as pitbulls. There was a fucking massive one of these in my local shop at half six this morning, really big, attached to a man that really couldn't have controlled it if it decided to go apeshit. He was having a hard enough time trying to drag it into the shop as it was staring at me staring at it. And the man was taking it into a fucking shop, where there were little boys preparing their paper-rounds, and other humans! After hanging about a bit in the cold, I went in. The man was in the queue, right next to other people! I waited right over in the corner, and the dog turned its massive pure muscle body round and stared at me again, proper staring me out with it's fucked up, cold, dead eyes. I thought at the time that it must be sensing my contemplation of it's breed's impending demise at the hands of humanity, and silently, quietly forming the seed that could translate in the next few seconds as the moment that the nice doggy flips and rips someone's face off, namely mine. I stood behind the stacks of papers and the woman sorting them out as the man dragged the dog out, a chuckle in his voice as he visibly heaved on the rope to get the dog to leave the shop with him. I said to the woman at the counter, "aren't they supposed to be illegal or something?" and she said, "I don't know, but it was an ugly bugger."

I saw my mother today and asked her about the law in Britain on pitbulls; she said that she thought it was illegal for them to be out without a muzzle. I then went to my brother's house, where he demonstrated my error via a google search. So the dog might have just been thinking 'what the fuck is he looking at?' My brother said he thinks that English Bull Terriers might be nice dogs, but they've always looked like mean bastards to me. And this one was without doubt the biggest I've ever seen - I didn't know they grew that big. Like it would fucking kill you in a second, with a useless chuckling man literally in tow.

Anyone?

I have been the houseguest of two people who owned pit bulls, and in both instances, these dogs found it necessary to sleep with me. One hopped up on the hide-a-bed and curled up by my feet; the other leapt onto the couch I was sleeping on, and I had no other option but to spoon with the beast, that being the only way we both could fit.

Both of these animals were sweet and affectionate pets. I'm inclined to think that dogs are only as mean as their owners make them--or only as mean as you train them not to be. German shepherds certainly have a history of having been involved in some nasty business, but the one I own is an absolute sweetheart--Itchy McGoo can vouch for this. You simply cannot make him bite you, though he might inadvertently knock you off-balance leaping up to lick your face. And despite his size (90 lbs.), he is very gentle when playing with other, much smaller dogs.

Wanting to exterminate an entire breed of animal because, maybe, the majority of people who owned them have misused them does not mean that they are an innately evil breed. To do so is the very definition of prejudice. While I wouldn't equate it with the holocaust, making rash assumptions about any group based on some of its members--even the majority of its members--is the impulse from which racism springs.

That said, if a dog does attack someone viciously, it needs to be put down. I love dogs (and cats, too), but I value human life above canine life.

Chapter Two wrote:Please could anyone tell me of the vicious/dangerous/should be annihilated off the planet factor for the English Bull Terrier?

They aren't Pits, so my knowledge, there are no bans on them in effect yet.

They aren't aggressive to strangers like Pits can be, but they are super strong-willed and stubborn. They are great with people but terrible with dogs.

They are super-cute, too. English Bull Terriers are decent dogs if you are committed enough to them.

My roomate had his lip bitten off two years ago by one of these. Crap.

Brett Eugene Ralph wrote:I have been the houseguest of two people who owned pit bulls, and in both instances, these dogs found it necessary to sleep with me. One hopped up on the hide-a-bed and curled up by my feet; the other leapt onto the couch I was sleeping on, and I had no other option but to spoon with the beast, that being the only way we both could fit.

Both of these animals were sweet and affectionate pets. I'm inclined to think that dogs are only as mean as their owners make them--or only as mean as you train them not to be.

I also had a friend who owned a pit bull that was one of the friendliest animals that I ever met. I never spooned with it but damn if that dog wasn't happy as shit to see me every time I went over there.

Intern_8033 wrote:http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060206fa_fact

That article was excellent.

We could start a thread about German Shepherds, Chows or Dobermans and have people telling about getting attacked. As two articles have shown in this thread now, Pit Bulls are statistically proven to be just as friendly (if not more) towards humans than other breeds. Isolated incidents covered by a sensationalist media has fueled hysteria. I've been bitten by two dogs in my life. One was a Chow and the other was a Lab. The responsibility of these attacks falls on the dog owners, not the dogs.

John W. wrote:

Intern_8033 wrote:http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060206fa_fact

That article was excellent.

We could start a thread about German Shepherds, Chows or Dobermans and have people telling about getting attacked. As two articles have shown in this thread now, Pit Bulls are statistically proven to be just as friendly (if not more) towards humans than other breeds. Isolated incidents covered by a sensationalist media has fueled hysteria. I've been bitten by two dogs in my life. One was a Chow and the other was a Lab. The responsibility of these attacks falls on the dog owners, not the dogs.

Do any of you all remember those 1970's TV movies about crazed attack Dobermans? They all had "they" in the title, and the titles were really long complete sentences. I have a vivid memory of some dobermans tearing ass around the corner of the upper floor of an apartment building. Scary stuff!