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Make one of those amps a bass amp; bass amps really give you the "chunk."
Someone brought up the point that carrying two amps is cumbersome; this is true. However, if that extra amp was everybodys extra amp then you could share the work. What I'm getting at is that it might be fun to plug everyone into that extra amp using a mixer. Then you could add a "fifth member" who could just play with the mixer controls, maybe have some effect loops... control who gets hit with what effect...
Just a little variation on the idea that started this thread....

Something interesting I ran into when I replaced one of the YBA-1A's in my setup with a JMP is the whole phase thing... I use the "HI" input on the JMP, which has one extra triode at work in the preamp. So the YBA-1A and JMP are out of phase automatically. Like, if I just split my guitar signal, straight out of the guitar and into the two amps, they're out of phase and are working against each other in the low end.

So with this setup, it's normally wider sounding but has a less present low end. When I engage one of the channels on the Super Duper, that puts the amps in phase with each other. And then I can use the second channel to knock the gain up and take the amps back out of phase.

So anyway, my point is that a potential drawback of a two amp rig is that unless they have the same number of preamp stages (i.e. both an odd number or both an even number), the amps will be out of phase unless you do something to reverse the phase of one of them.

One of the coolest guitar sounds I ever achieved was a Laney Pro-Tube 50wt amp, completely retubed with way-too-pricey Groove Tubes (the EL84's were rated at 4, so they broke up early), into an old PA cabinet...jeez, I cannot even remember the type. The 18" was something I just threw into it. Then I turned it ALL THE WAY UP, eq and all. On my guitar, which was an Ibanez whatthefuckever, with Seymour Duncan humbuckers. I yanked all the controls out of the guitar, and wired the pickups straight to the output jack (this was more because I used to toss the guitar around, drunk rockstar style. Yes, I was an idiot). When it had new strings on it, the sound was truly awesome. People used to laugh at gigs, until I turned it on.

I think the bi-amp sort of sound can be achieved through an application of this kind of principle, simply because you have a huge, mushy low-end driver coupled with a breety, sharp little horn. Try plugging your head into a PA cab, preferably rated to handle well above the transients your amp may supply. But be careful...I can't believe I didn't pop my horn with this rig.

scott wrote:So anyway, my point is that a potential drawback of a two amp rig is that unless they have the same number of preamp stages (i.e. both an odd number or both an even number), the amps will be out of phase unless you do something to reverse the phase of one of them.

The easiest way is swapping the speaker leads. I made a box one time that had a plastic housing and two 1/4 jacks connected with speaker cable, but out of phase. If I was ever using two amps and one was out of phase, I could plug throught the box. Simple and safe, so long as the ground of your speakers are not connected to the ground of the chassis.

Ben Adrian

im not totally sure how to do this but heres an idea....

take your 2 amps and try to set it up so there is a delay between them (maybe split the signal and use a delay unit on one of the new signals?).... one amp plays what you are playing, the other plays it a split second after. then, insert a filter right before the input of the delayed amp. use this filter in band-pass or hi-pass mode. tweak the filter cutoff and resonance to get the tone you want. this way you get a filtered echo of what you are playing.

sometimes i replicate this in software with amp-modelling plugins (given direct-line guitar recordings, its really easy to set up the delay by copying the recording to another track and shifting it off-time a bit), but i have never tried it with real hardware. when i first tried it i thought it would just be a cheap delay line replica, but it actually sounds different cuz of the filter.

I have stolen most of what I do/sound like on guitar from the following:

Billy Gibbons
Wilko Johnson
Terrie Ex
Andy Gill
Greg Sage
Santiago Durango
Keith Levine
Colin Newman
Andy Cohen

The rig, I think I made that up myself. Everything else, essentially stolen.

I posted earlier that I had EL84's in my old Laney head. Wrong. EL34's. In case it merits interest...

i dont know steve - jerry garcia used a simarler rig.

steve wrote:I have stolen most of what I do/sound like on guitar from the following:

Billy Gibbons
Wilko Johnson
Terrie Ex
Andy Gill
Greg Sage
Santiago Durango
Keith Levine
Colin Newman
Andy Cohen

The rig, I think I made that up myself. Everything else, essentially stolen.

i think you forgot rowland s. howard.

I came across a PDF file of some weird "magazine" that was put out by Craig Anderton or somebody like that in the '80s; called "Machine" (I think) which featured a decent, in-depth review of the IVP, from an electronics standpoint as well as a functional one. I would dig it up the PDF and post it if anyone cared -- I think it was the same issue that reviewed some goofy proto-ebow thing that Godley and Creme were fucking around with that used six little motorized rubber wheels that induced string vibration through friction -- simple -- weird. Sort of neat, I guess -- but playing the guitar by pushing and holding down buttons isn't my idea of fun. Freaks...

Anyway, the IVP was basically characterized in the review as a solid, but somewhat overbuilt "Swiss Army Preamp" that had a few deficiencies (like cheapo op-amps and other components causing noise problems) but was otherwise a really innovative piece of trendy rack equipment with a quasi-parametric EQ section that had almost "too much" boost and cut capability in its four overlapping bands, loops out the ass, channel switching, etc. Had I read this review before I heard that Steve used this as part of his "rig", I would have wanted one anyway, but Steve's sound was endorsement enough for me -- so I stole it. I was sick of changing tubes in my "vintage" Fender and hated having to use a "clean boost" preamp pedal just to keep from going deaf just to get some workable distortion. I guess if I'm ripping off any band with my "sound", it's Big Black -- and that's fine by me. Steve told me that he usually just used the IVP direct back then, but that sound is way too dry and harsh for me unless it's on a Big Black record, so I usually just run it through a cheap old Crown D-75 and a Peavey stereo cabinet. I never knew that Steve used one of those Crown power amps, but I think he said that he used to have one too. I don't remember if said he used it for guitar or not, but it works for me and the price was right.

As for IVPs -- I've got three of the fucking things sitting on the floor next to me (thanks, eBay!) and about four or so other weird preamps; Roland SIP-300, a Boss GL-100, some other junk not worth mentioning, an Intersound "THE NOTCH" (great, weird little notch/boost "black box with knobs and jacks" to put in front of another amp -- it makes the awful SIP-300 actually sound good, which is quite a feat). The rest of this crap might as well serve as actual doorstops, because every time I use something other than the IVP, I miss the flexibility of the EQ and the cheesy distortion that reminds me of the old Peavey Rage-108 that I indefinitely "borrowed" from some girl in high school.

I stocked up on the IVPs because some Australian guy named Max from some band called "Udet" was so excited when he saw mine that he had to have his own -- he literally grabbed mine and ran around in a state of joy -- so I wanted to have a couple backups in case they became so "collectible" that I wouldn't be able to pick them up for fifty to eighty bucks a piece, like I did. I think Max said that he eventually got his IVP for a cool $200 or so, but I can't really be blamed for that -- and this was probably about six years ago.

I tried playing one of the Velenos when we were at Electrical, but my fingers are too big and clumsy for that neck. Sounded great though -- very "Christian" tone. It funny to see people bring up Jerry Garcia here, because Phil Lesh also used (uses?) an IVP. I thought that was pretty common knowledge for nerds, so I figured it would have been mentioned. Did I miss it?

The IVP is a great fucking preamp! Thanks, Steve!

My stupid Fender is in storage and full of mouse turds, and I don't miss it a bit. One amp is more than enough for me, since I'm basically playing music for my cat these days. If Steve has any steak knives, drugs, lampshades, cat food or hot sauces to recommend, I'd be into hearing about those too. I'm a criminal like that, and I have my needs.

I also have a virtually useless Intersound active crossover, so if you really want to "biamp", this will do your dicks and your pussies if you have a stereo power amp or two mono jobbers. Let me know if you're interested -- you'll have some other weird but sort of "cool" Intersound junk up in your rack. If anyone needs IVP schematics, I bought them from one of those ripoff artists that sells PDF copies of schematics on the Internet to desperate suckers, so I'd like to fuck them back by giving them out for free.

I wonder how many people bought Trace Elliot junk based on the "Songs About Fucking" liner notes, only to be disappointed when they actually heard what that shit sounds like.

P.S. - Chris Hall: maybe you should take a page out of Ben "Hey, look what I built!" Adrian's book and cut my poor, dead, gay band some slack for a change -- the moments you choose to slam us are so easy as to make you appear lazy. At least Ben was nice, and said some thoughtful things about us on some stupid webzine -- or was that Conan -- it was somebody in his band. Didn't you used to waste your time on the old "shellac mailing list" before, or was that just what's-her-name and Ben and whoever? I don't know you from Adam, and I'm seriously not trying to be a pissy-pussy here, but this whole smug routine is getting a little threadbare. It's not like anyone who's not a Shellachole really knows who we are -- or were, as the case may be. Jesus Christ -- it's not like our fucking name was "Log Bass" or something. We're Pennsylvanians, so we'd definitely go for "Budd and The Castor Oils" or something vaguely suggestive like that.

P.P.S. - Sorry about the attitude, Chris. I'm sure we'd get along "out there..." really well. Ben -- I hope you know that I'm kidding. By the way, the above band name is MINE and not any of yours. MINE! ALL MINE!!!