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Secondhand Cigarette Smoke
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:45 pm
by zom-zom_Archive
True. When I used to smoke, as a "hobby" smoker, one of my favourite things was to light up a Parliament while casting for lake trout along the North Shore of Lake Superior.
I sort of miss the smoking, but I think I'd puke if I tried a cig again.
Secondhand Cigarette Smoke
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:30 pm
by ivan_Archive
Needless to say I don't agree, because your argument is that you should be allowed to willfully inflict discomfort on others because convention in the past has allowed this.
To engage in the type absurd analogy that seems ever popular around here, it was once traditional practice in burma that young boys would give blowjobs to old men as a rite of passage. Colonial types discouraged this. Net result, old status quo which was bad changed, everyone happy with new status quo. Smokers similarly are emotionally attached to the bar scenario, claiming, as you and steve do, a form of proprietory right to the atmosphere which you have no real entitlement to.
If someone has to be put out, and somebody has to be put out here, it should be the smokers, because it is not that inconvient to stand in the street gabbing with other smokers and their friends and having a swell time. It is, for someone with asthma or someone sensitive to smoke, physically uncomfortable to be in a smoky environment.
The "fuck off this is our treehouse" rationale is nonsense, what exactly are smokers contributing to the bar environment, besides some imagined film noir air of danger and romance.
crap
Secondhand Cigarette Smoke
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:34 pm
by kerble_Archive
Doug Stanhope wrote:Think about this. If secondhand smoke is so much worse for you than regular smoke and nicotine is the most addictive substance known to man, then shouldn’t people exposed to second hand smoke be addicted to second hand smoke? Do you know any second hand smokers? Do you know anyone who gets done having sex and has to rush out to a bar to get a fix of their second hand smoke?
Secondhand Cigarette Smoke
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:47 pm
by Mayfair_Archive
steve wrote:Let's say a bunch of people are minding their own business, doing what pleases them in a bar.
Someone walks into the bar and says, "Stop it! I don't like what you're doing in this bar! That's why I hate coming here! I demand that you stop so I can come in here without being offended by what you are doing!"
Why on earth should the people in the bar not tell him to fuck off and find a bar where they don't do what he is so offended by? What they were happily doing among themselves?
This applies equally to smoking, cocksucking, hippy dancing, gambling, nude-model life drawing, high-fiving, watching the World Cup...
Poop. Your argument is poop, sir. I will re-write your post with a similar action in the place of smoking.
steve could have wrote:Let's say a bunch of people are minding their own business, doing what pleases them in a public space like a bar.... mixing hazardous, dangerous chemicals that are known to be harmful to people's health... not just the people actually mixing them but to those around them who may or may not care to join in.
A citizen with the same rights and laws protecting him as protect the others walks into the bar and says, "Stop it! I don't like you mixing hazardous chemicals that are proven to harm you and those around you (including me) in this public place! That's why I hate coming here to this public space! I demand that you stop as it is a danger to you and those around you including me in the public space where I have as much right to enjoy as you!"
Why on earth should the people in the bar not tell him to fuck off and find a public space where they don't mix hazardous, dangerous chemicals that are known to be harmful to people's health in a public place? What they were happily doing among themselves?
This applies equally to smoking, cocksucking, hippy dancing, gambling, nude-model life drawing, high-fiving, watching the World Cup... though on second thought those do not related as they are not proven to harm the health of the people in that public space.
....And scene.
Bars are public spaces. Your home or a private club are not and therefore not effected by the smoking ban. You want to smoke? Go home and harm yourself and your close friends and pets.
Secondhand Cigarette Smoke
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:50 pm
by steve_Archive
ivan wrote:If someone has to be put out, and somebody has to be put out here...
I disagree with this presumption. If non-smokers would assert their economic power, they could make bars suited to their tastes viable, as did the cocksucking and high-fiving crowds.
Secondhand Cigarette Smoke
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:57 pm
by Sly Bug_Archive
A bar tender can decide either he wants his bar to remain smoke free or not. People have the choice to go to a place where it's allowed to smoke or not. Then, why a smoking ban?
Secondhand Cigarette Smoke
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:59 pm
by ivan_Archive
steve said
their [non-smokers] economic power
i disagree with this presumption, the real power lies with vintners and vintner associations, and vintners associations are inherently suspicious of non-smoking as they feel there is no market for it. They want to pander to the most people, even if it means screwing some people because conventions of barkeeping are arranged that way.
You are still arguing that the system should rearrage itself around your personal choice. You, like the cock-suckers, are the deviation from an ideal situation. Smoking is not the ideal we should aspire to.
There was an attempt at a no-smoking bar here in Ireland before the ban came in, it failed miserably because non-smoking, unlike cocksucking, is not typically a shared interest among friends and aquaintances. So because every group had a few smokers who wanted to be accomodated, the non-smoking friends would go to a smoking bar.
Secondhand Cigarette Smoke
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:06 pm
by mega therion_Archive
I really don't give a shit about getting cancer, etc., but this shit just totally destroys my throat and irritates my eyes at every gig I go to. I've always hated walking home reeking of butts.
Secondhand Cigarette Smoke
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:09 pm
by Arson Smith_Archive
First, I considered the EPA's definition of Secondhand Smoke:
"
Secondhand smoke, also known as Environmental Tobacco Smoke (ETS), consists of exhaled smoke from smokers and side stream smoke from the burning end of a cigarette, cigar or pipe."
Then, I reflected upon steve's comment:
"
This applies equally to smoking, cocksucking, hippy dancing, gambling, nude-model life drawing, high-fiving, watching the World Cup..."
Finally, I concluded that I am actually way more concerned about Secondhand Cocksuck.
Secondhand Cigarette Smoke
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:12 pm
by steve_Archive
Arson Smith wrote:Finally, I concluded that I am actually way more concerned about Secondhand Cocksuck.
You mean spit and spatter?