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I was excited to see yut had made a post on Robert Fripp so I could see him thoroughly dissed. Somebody had to give him a crap vote, am I right?! Brian Eno is a moron, right?!

This 24 to 1 vote has caused me to see the light.

NOT CRAP.

Absolutely not crap.

Eno did "Enossification" on LLDOB. He added a lot of noisy synthesizer crap. I don't know why it sounds so noisy and bad. Genesis used lots of keyboards (synthesizers too) before that record, and those previous records sounded great. They used lots of keyboards after that record, and they sound great. That record sounds kind of bad, mainly because of the knob twiddling Eno did.

Chris Cutler says the obvious about KC and Fripp that everyone is in denial about. Fripp's techniques were nothing new, but he took credit for inventing them. King Crimson records have 1 or 2 striking tracks (he admits to liking some of their stuff) and then a lot of filler.

I love Lark's Tongues 1 & 2. That record is quite good. My criticism is that only a fraction of their work is excellent, and most of it is poop. Even their excellent work isn't really that great. They were a successful band and sold a lot of records, so naturally they will be regarded more in rock history. I personally don't value art based on sales.

As for the Yes thing, you take one line out of context and totally miss the fact that they don't make records to make a lot of money. As of the late 90's, Yes reformed as a progressive rock band, made new records, and have largely been ignored by the media. The fact that they can sell out stadiums is more due to their 80s success than anything else. The point is, the band is still around, is still active, and makes records that do not get played on MTV, VH1, or the radio. These records are better than their 1978 release, Tormato. These records have as much quality material as a 70s Crimson record (2 excellent songs per record).

The thing that has me in stitches is that a Fripp/Crimson fan is making fun of Anderson's vocals. That is so fucking hillarious, I had to go pee after reading that.

I never said Fripp or King Crimson are crap. They are overrated. Making records that are 20% great and 80% poop does not make them the high point of 70's rock music. This notion that Fripp was holding back doesn't diminish the fact that their records were filled with mostly poor quality music.

In fact, I would say Fripp held back King Crimson. UK is sort of like Crimson without Fripp, and is such a better band, it is not even funny. I can listen to a UK record from start to finish, and virtually every second is great music. None of this "doo doo doo doo doo doo you make my life so beautiful doo doo". I mean, do any Crimson fans actually like that crap? Are people so willing to obey Peel, Branson, and independent rock bands that they can't hear that most of this Crimson stuff is just plain shit?

Minotaur029 wrote:I was excited to see yut had made a post on Robert Fripp so I could see him thoroughly dissed. Somebody had to give him a crap vote, am I right?! Brian Eno is a moron, right?!

This 24 to 1 vote has caused me to see the light.

NOT CRAP.

Um, I didn't give Fripp a crap vote. I didn't vote at all.

This is par for the course. Crimson fandom comes mainly from the generation of hype by John Peel, Richard Branson, and also many math-rock bands. The sentiment that a 24:1 vote means they are great is the same reason why so many people blindly accept their greatness, despite the "doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo". How can anyone listen to that and think they are a great band?

Furthermore, people think Discipline is a great record? Seriously? I can see Red, Larks, Lizard, Starless, Islands (maybe)... Discipline? Are you shitting me?!? There's no way I can feel dissed by people who think they are Crimson fans because they like Discipline. That sort of tells me they haven't heard their stuff. Now, if you think I was dissed, feel free... I can only really be dissed by someone who knows what they are talking about. I feel more like I have been douched by dirty puddle water than dissed...

It doesn't surprise me that some people who think Robert Fripp is so great also don't get the fact that someone can like an artist, but also say "gee... these guys get way more credit than they deserve".

The hyperbole of Crimson makes me want to vote them crap, but things like Larks' Tongue, Red, Starless, Lizard make me appreciate the fraction of their work that is great.

They have done great stuff, but it is a fraction of their work. The overall quality of Crimson material is not great. There are plenty of 70s bands that made records that one can listen to from start to finish. Crimson was never one of them.

Chris Cutler wrote:Personally, I have to say that I never had much time for King Crimson. I disliked their first album and, apart from a track here and there, didn't find much I cared for on later albums either

This hits the nail on the head. There is a track here and there. Overall, there is not much to like, other than a myth of greatness perpetuated by John Peel and Richard Branson.

Do you Crimson fans really like "In the Court of King Crimson"? Do you think it has stellar guitar work?

I'm not a fan of Crimson really...I like some of their stuff...I'm more a fan of Fripp and Fripp/Eno stuff.

"The thing that has me in stitches is that a Fripp/Crimson fan is making fun of Anderson's vocals. That is so fucking hillarious, I had to go pee after reading that."

Its not so much his vocals in an aesthetic sense which I have quite liked at times but his twee-ness I have a problem with; any of his solo albums are chock full of his godawfulness. You might need to get some Depends if you have a bladder problem. I'd prefer it if you kept your medical problems to yourself though.

Oh there's about a million examples of Anderson's twaddle but this one's as good as any:

ALL GODS CHILDREN

All Gods children shall be free
All Gods people shine a light on me
All Gods children shall be free
All Gods people shine a light on me

I can play with the game call it purification
We can dance to the fantasy mystification
You can make it by living within the vicinity
I be ready to kiss you and love you infinity dancing in gravity

All Gods children shall be free
All Gods people shine a light on me

We were ready believing the heavenly choir
And the jollyfication is getting us higher and higher
Oh! the joy would be climbing and singing the stars at night
We be touching the strategy getting it just right

Better get out and work out a way to the energy
They be calling with musical high choreography
Just to dance with the thought inconceivable beauty
To be ready to kiss you and love you infinity dancing in gravity dancing in gravity

All Gods children shall be free
All Gods people shine a light on me
All Gods children shall be free
All Gods people shine a light on me

Like a song that has waited so long for its freedom
I be ready to run with you true inspiration
Have you heard of the people the Magical Trinity
I am ready to kiss you and love you infinity dancing in gravity dancing in gravity

All Gods children shall be free
All Gods people shine a light on me
All Gods children shall be free
All Gods people shine a light
shine a light
shine a light on me
______________________________________

You can only appreciate technique it seems.

What Eno did on LLDOB was ok but Genesis were crap anyway; apart from a few good melotron moments.

I can't resist, more Jon Anderson:

Some Are Born

Towa taya taka tai
Towa taya taka tai
Towa taya tak
Taya tak
Towa taya taka tai

Towa taya taka tai
Towa taya taka tai
Towa taya tak
Taya tak
Towa taya taka tai

Some are born to run
Some are born to fly
It's the essence of the love inbuilt in everyman

Some are born for fun
Some are born for lies
Do not regret a moment living out your life

Some are born to love
Some are born to hide
Through the echoes of the feelings drawn in everyman

Some are born to lose
Some are born to try
For trying harder seems the only way to go

Some are born to run
Some are born to fly
Through the echoes of the feelings drawn in everyman

Some are born to lose
Some are born to try
Trying harder seems the only way to go
Trying harder seems the only way to go

hee we meet, I feel it in the morning light
Getting it together, does it feel right
Ohhh-

Let us be together in the morning light
Let us be together in the dawning light
Ohhh-
Let it through
Let it through

Some are born to run
Some are born to fly
It's the essence of the love inbuilt in everyman

Some are born for fun
Some are born for lies
Do not regret a moment living out your life

Some are born to run
Some are born to fly
Through the echoes of the feelings drawn in everyman

Some are born to run
Some are born to fly
Then we spend some time just hanging around
Them we spend some time just hanging around

Towa taya taka tai
Towa taya taka tai
Towa taya tak taya tak
Towa taya taka tai

He he. I preferred the early mid period Yes lyrics that made absolutley no sense whatsoever. When I think I get an inkling of what he's going on about I feel somewhat nauseous.

Wow... I own 10 Yes records and I haven't heard these songs at all. I never even knew they existed You must be a true Yessman. I just stick to the great Yes records, of which there are plenty. I really can't say the same for KC. I am not one who will defend everything Yes did. They did a fair amount of work just to make money. The thing that impresses me is that they stopped doing this.

Anyway, in 20 years when some douches are talking about how great Fallout Boy were and you are trying to explain how much better Slint was, I will be laughing my ass off and pee'ing in my depends, because it is exactly the same thing.

Crimson is like the Nirvana of prog rock. Or maybe Floyd more so. They are competant bands with some pretty great tunes, but because of their popularity a fair amount of people will think they were the best of their ilk. There is such an inertia of belief that no rational discussion or proposition that perhaps they are overrated will matter... Their record sales are what define their greatness, not their actual art.

boilermaker wrote:any of his solo albums are chock full of his godawfulness.

Ah, and all you can do is point out some silly lyrics from very obscure Anderson solo records and lecture me on how I only care about technique? So you're into Crimson for the killer lyrics?

I only have Olias of Sunhillow, and I think it is one of the best records I have ever heard. Then again, I don't have every Jon Anderson solo record like, appearantly, you do.

The funny thing is that it is ambient, almost like an Eno record, except Anderson knows how to transition between parts, where Eno feels the need to use repetition as a statement of modernity.

Olias of Sunhillow is better than any Eno record. It's Lord of the Rings style mythology may be a bit nerdy, but the music stands on it's own.

Most Eno fans I know are also into a lot of the music where guys dress up really cool and alternative and just sort of wallow in a few sustained notes and the presets on old Roland synths. Anyone who has owned a fair amount of vintage synth gear will know that pressing a few keys here and there is nothing too astonishing. Maybe guitar players might be amazed...

yut wrote:

boilermaker wrote:any of his solo albums are chock full of his godawfulness.

I only have Olias of Sunhillow, and I think it is one of the best records I have ever heard. Then again, I don't have every Jon Anderson solo record like, appearantly, you do.

No I grew out of Yes a long time ago but a very loyal friend collected all the solo albums of the Yes & Genesis chaps (though I thought a couple of Steve Hackett's solo albums post Genesis were ok when he wasn't singing and Anthony Phillips knew when to leave). I used to laugh my ass off at the Jon Anderson records; especially Animation. I heard Olias too and it's really sorry crap. I liked it when I was like 12 or something when I was into naive fantasy concept albums for a couple of weeks.

I only have Olias of Sunhillow, and I think it is one of the best records I have ever heard.

Case closed.

No I think KC lyrics are pretty bad too for the most part but not as embarrasing as Anderson's. It's the live improv I'm mostly interested in.