Premier Rock Forum

I'm not trying to be a jerk but, Behind the Music usually paints artist/major label hose-jobs as a pretty black-and-white sort of a thing. You never see the band going "Yep, we've made out like bandits off of the deal where the label paid for our tours/recording without any means of recouping. Suckers!" It seems like Wilco and Son Volt worked out pretty band-friendly deals while on the majors. However, It seems like they may have picked up how to work out a deal while getting shafted by the indie that put out there first few records. Some of the stories those three tell along with what you see in interviews are real mind blowers. Not that it's just majors. It seems like there are quite a few SST horror stories as well.

Speaking of Reprise, I talked to Brann from Mastodon right after they got signed. He said "the label only wanted Mastodon to be Mastodon".

It seems they got quite a band friendly deal. They didn't get a shitload of new gear (which would be using a good chunk of the labels money), hired the same producer from Leviathan for Blood Mountain and dont seem to be suffering financially. Seems like they played it smart and Reprise/Warner brothers gave them enough control.

steve wrote:

windowlicker wrote:My band is attracting some A&R activity at the moment from a couple of major labels in the UK, and although I'd love to be signed to Drag City, Touch and Go, Matador etc, they're not interested and I think we'd find it very hard to turn down an offer from one of the big guys. One of the lads in the band is married with a mortgage, another has a 5 year old kid, we're all fuckin broke...real life, debt and families can impact on these things too.

It's not black and white.

Those things should have an impact. Do you think those things should be made vulnerable to the impersonal and indifferent machinations of a big record label? You do realize that you are risking them more rather than less by becoming bound and beholden to a big label, don't you?

Thanks for the reasoned response Steve. Of course it's something we'd be concerned about, but the way it is now financially, we can't even afford a rehearsal space, equipment or a van to trek up and down the country in. We love playing music, but can't even find a way to fit it in around our shitty jobs and other commitments, so when, out of the blue, a big, historic label shows an interest in your music what are ya going to do? Financially, I'd say we're as fucked right now as we'll ever be. It surely can't get much worse by signing to a major. Even if we end up owing them money, they can't get blood from a stone.

Marsupialized wrote:

windowlicker wrote:My band is attracting some A&R activity at the moment from a couple of major labels in the UK, and although I'd love to be signed to Drag City, Touch and Go, Matador etc, they're not interested and I think we'd find it very hard to turn down an offer from one of the big guys. One of the lads in the band is married with a mortgage, another has a 5 year old kid, we're all fuckin broke...real life, debt and families can impact on these things too.

It's not black and white.

you see being in some stupid band as a stable and long term means of financial stability?
I am trying to imagine what kind of delusional retard would think that way, but I am having a hard time picturing it.....can you maybe post a picture?

I personally don't think of music as a stable and longterm means of financial stability. I'm a couple of months away from getting a degree, so if I get that I'll more than likely be able to get a job I like doing if the band doesn't work out. I'd rather make music though. But what person freezing their balls off for years in a factory is going to turn down the chance to go fulltime at music? That sounds "retarded" to me.

windowlicker wrote:

Marsupialized wrote:

windowlicker wrote:My band is attracting some A&R activity at the moment from a couple of major labels in the UK, and although I'd love to be signed to Drag City, Touch and Go, Matador etc, they're not interested and I think we'd find it very hard to turn down an offer from one of the big guys. One of the lads in the band is married with a mortgage, another has a 5 year old kid, we're all fuckin broke...real life, debt and families can impact on these things too.

It's not black and white.

you see being in some stupid band as a stable and long term means of financial stability?
I am trying to imagine what kind of delusional retard would think that way, but I am having a hard time picturing it.....can you maybe post a picture?

I personally don't think of music as a stable and longterm means of financial stability. I'm a couple of months away from getting a degree, so if I get that I'll more than likely be able to get a job I like doing if the band doesn't work out. I'd rather make music though. But what person freezing their balls off for years in a factory is going to turn down the chance to go fulltime at music? That sounds "retarded" to me.

You're in the same position as every band I know - you're skint. In fact, everybody I know is skint if they're in a band or not. And one of you has a kid for christ's sake. Think about getting 'proper' jobs and do the band for shits and giggles. A major label might not be able to get blood from a stone but they can legally stop you releasing music in years to come and if they don't then the experience will probably mentally stop you from being able to do the one thing that it sounds like you enjoy anyway - 2 bad scenarios and you're still skint.

windowlicker wrote:But what person freezing their balls off for years in a factory is going to turn down the chance to go fulltime at music?

Probably nobody, but it's rarely useful to deal in rhetoric unless of course you've been freezing your balls off in a factory for years?

My last (abortive) band was pure misery from the moment that a proper manager, a proper producer and proper record labels were allowed through the proverbial door. It was a genuinely (for me) life-changing, soul-destroying experience.

That experience has (thus far) irrevocably damaged/changed the relationship that I have with music making.

honeyisfunny wrote:the experience will probably mentally stop you from being able to do the one thing that it sounds like you enjoy anyway

Bingo.

That's a pretty big risk IMO.

I "signed" a "real" contract when i was pretty young (about 20 i think) and i can tell you right now that I will never sign anything other than a one album p+d deal with any one label ever again.
i will never sign over more than one territory, and always keep some kind of control of your fucking publishing!!!!

We were not involved in a "major" deal and really there was nothing in it for us but we thought it was a cool label run by friends in the scene who gave a shit about music and stuff.

Fucking Indies are worse than majors i can tell you that. at least you may get an advance of some kind, you may get at least one royalty statement.
kids are dumb thats just a fact, and they need bad experiences to learn... but not be fucked for 10 years like we were.

We were fucking rolled over and fucked in the ass repeatedly.
the only thing that got us through was we had a clause that said we owned everything in our home country.
Smartest thing I ever did was that.

Steve really hit the nail on the head with "he with the most money wins".
We knew we were right so did they but they knew we couldn't afford to take them to any kind of court.
i really wish i had found and read the problem with the music biz article when i was a little younger.

the worst part is that there are still bands on that label that are there because of the "cool" factor that the label has with the kids, and bands that are good people.
but there is no band on the label that i have spoken to that regard them as ethical.

fuck record labels...

sorry for the rant.

oh, as a little side note I actually started to run a small indie label myself now, with a decent distro deal.
I don't have contracts with any of the bands and have an open books policy.
If any band wants they can come and look over the books them selves, or I can send them to anyone they choose.
It is the only way to feel like i am being the most decent human being i can towards these people.

i don't want a pat on the back either I'm only saying it so others may decide that it could be a good way to do buisness.
you know kinda like if you say it often enough it becomes reality...
like "im gonna be a start, im gonna be a star!"

punk wrote:
the worst part is that there are still bands on that label that are there because of the "cool" factor that the label has with the kids, and bands that are good people.

name it.

it seems to me like all/vast majority of bands who weren't obviously fucked by major labels were succesfully touring and releasing albums prior to singing the contract, and because of that they had some kind of a idea what to watch out for.