Minotaur029 wrote:Dude...the answer is simple...we have fucking space...we have fucking choices...

Do you ever ask yourself questions about where all that 'we have' comes from? Your answer makes me think even more that you call America 'the greatest' because of how it works for you. That's a very self-centered view. Don't you think you could still have a good American life if our military laid off on all the bombing and killing?

Basically, what it looks like you are saying is that "America is great because it's still working for me."

Yes or no?

Minotaur029 wrote:

tommydski wrote:

Neil Young wrote:I'm proud to be Canadian but I don't let it hold me back.

I'm part of the planet, not part of a nation.

Spoken like a true Brit.

He's Canadian. Says so right there.

Minotaur029 wrote:I actually got into a long argument with Nader in 2004 about how he could fuck everything up again (I knew the polls [with Nader numbers included] for any state on any given day). You can say the Supreme Court stole the election, but to deny that Nader didn't play a role just by existing is folly.

Don't blame Nader, blame the lame-ass Democratic Party. It's amazing they could not come up with ANYONE decent to run. John Kerry? WTF?

clocker bob wrote:

Minotaur029 wrote:Dude...the answer is simple...we have fucking space...we have fucking choices...

Do you ever ask yourself questions about where all that 'we have' comes from? Your answer makes me think even more that you call America 'the greatest' because of how it works for you. That's a very self-centered view. Don't you think you could still have a good American life if our military laid off on all the bombing and killing?

Basically, what it looks like you are saying is that "America is great because it's still working for me."

Yes or no?

America isn't working for you, Bob? You live in Chicago, no? Where do you suggest I live? I'm saying, I'd rather not live anywhere else because America is a do-it-yourself culture, and I am a do-it-yourself punk rocker. No whining, no bitching, just action.

With great power comes corruption. Europe was corrupt and imperialist as fuck for centuries...I know its history intimately. Now Europe is in the midst of a huge, Catholic-esque guilt trip. Fuck that shit.

As far as a giant, corrupt power goes...I'd say we've handled ourselves pretty well, even in spite of Iraq and Vietnam.


I think that deep down in your heart, Bob, you know that Chicago...America is the place to be...the center of action in today's global society...despite all the bullshit we hear about China...20 years ago we were all terrified of Japan...thought we'd get in a massive war (economic competition friction), etc...

tommydski wrote:

Minotaur029 wrote:

tommydski wrote:

Neil Young wrote:I'm proud to be Canadian but I don't let it hold me back.

I'm part of the planet, not part of a nation.

Spoken like a true Brit.

He's Canadian. Says so right there.

May I remind you that Neil supported Reagan and wrote "Let's Roll?" He also wrote countless songs about fuckin' California and has basically been an American since the fuckin' '60s.

sunset_gun wrote:
Don't blame Nader, blame the lame-ass Democratic Party. It's amazing they could not come up with ANYONE decent to run. John Kerry? WTF?

No, no. Blame Nader. The guy has no backbone. The Democrats have no one, so Kerry was the default straw man.

Skronk wrote:

sunset_gun wrote:
Don't blame Nader, blame the lame-ass Democratic Party. It's amazing they could not come up with ANYONE decent to run. John Kerry? WTF?

No, no. Blame Nader. The guy has no backbone. The Democrats have no one, so Kerry was the default straw man.

Thanks dude.

Anytime, Minotaur.

Skronk wrote:

sunset_gun wrote:
Don't blame Nader, blame the lame-ass Democratic Party. It's amazing they could not come up with ANYONE decent to run. John Kerry? WTF?

No, no. Blame Nader. The guy has no backbone. The Democrats have no one, so Kerry was the default straw man.

With the numbers Kerry pulled, imagine what they could have done if the candidate had a platform.

Minotaur029 wrote:America isn't working for you, Bob? You live in Chicago, no? Where do you suggest I live?

That completely misses the point. I am very appreciative of my American freedoms, dwindling though they may be, and I accept my responsibility to tell the truth about America, from inside America, as best I can. How do I make America a better place if I walk away from the disaster created on my watch? Are you asking for 'love it or leave it', Minotaur? Have you sunk so low that you'll resort to that argument?

I'm a patriot. My words prove it. America is not allowed to just evolve into whatever the rich decide it should be, and we have to go along with the plan, and I have to love it every step of the way-which you are doing every time Americans like you make dead stupid jingoist statements like 'America is the greatest country'.

minotaur wrote: I'm saying, I'd rather not live anywhere else.

That is not the same thing. Saying "I want to live here" does not serve as evidence for why you think America is great. America is not just what's good for you, but you seem determined to decide the issue based on those criteria alone. Here, I'll let you dance away from this point again:

clocker bob wrote:Your statement above is not true, not unless you are prepared to justify a LONG series of military and CIA interventions committed since the US became an expansionist imperialist power. I'd like to think that morals, justice, and spilled blood count with you, so how do you rank the US higher than Sweden, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, Belgium, Canada, and on and on? Who are they invading and killing for their oil?

Please sign your name to this statement, so I know where you're coming from:

"I, Minotaur, can excuse endless wanton bloodshed, if it is in service to a quality of life that I like. Other countries that kill less must be inferior to the US, because it they really cared about their citizens, they would be killing more people, because look how good we Americans have it, thanks to our killing power."

Could you also specify what level of killing America would need to reach for you to take the title of 'greatest' away from this country? Can you give me a number, a body count?