This new R.E.M. record! It is CRAP!

Man, not to rub it in, but imagine all the self importance and hand wringing that went into the Crap REM record's creation!

"Should we play this song for the interviewer, or this one?"
"Should we re-record this bass part a seventh time?"
"I really have to change this vocal part again, it just doesn't feel right.."
"This could be a single!"

UGH.

Redline wrote:Imagine all the self importance and hand wringing that went into the Crap REM record's creation!

"Should we play this song for the interviewer, or this one?"
"Should we re-record this bass part a seventh time?"
"I really have to change this vocal part again, it just doesn't feel right.."
"This could be a single!"

Do big rock star bands really act like this?

I do not know! I would like to hear some big rock star band stories!

So I will post a new thread!

About rock star behavior!

i've actually been listening to alot of r.e.m. lately (enough to realize that peter buck isn't actually the drummer) and i think i have to make an apology about my CRAP vote. they had a good run; perfectly minimal pop rock sensibilty without sounding like they're holding back. rekoning and life's rich pageant both sound good to me and i think because of what they were once capable of, i can overlook their overwhelming follies of the past fifteen years or so. NOT CRAP, sorry.

Bradley R. Weissenberger wrote:My R.E.M. hating friend then acknowledged that he might be hopelessly predisposed to hate R.E.M. simply because of a temporal accident. That is, R.E.M. arrived on the tail end of punk's cultural ascendence and possessed, at least superficially -- and to the chagrin of entrenched punks -- some of the same elements that a casual observer might perceive as "punk" (despite the fact that they have little to do with punk). Simply put, my friend felt that he might have had no choice but to hate R.E.M. simply because of when both he and they arrived, just as Duane Eddy and Link Wray fans might have disliked Buddy Holly.

This echoes a previous post, wherein Brad stated that no one is more readily predisdposed to unfairly dismiss REM out of hand than 80's punks. I recognize that there might be some truth to this. I wonder, however, if that matters. What I mean is that we tend to embrace our own musical loves above and beyond any logic, yet if someone denigrates one of those loves, we expect that enmity to hold up to logical critical scrutiny. Just an observation.

That said, if I can recall what was going on in my fifteen-year-old mind, I'll try to list the reasons I developed my initial dislike for REM:

1. The critical stink made over their "jangly" guitars. As someone who was already way into "power pop" bands like Shoes, the Flamin' Groovies, and Cheap Trick, not to mention The Byrds, I saw nothing innovative about this technique. There was no evidence that I could hear to support REM's being any more "innovative" at rehashing tried and true Rickenbaker strategies than Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers, another outfit who early on strove for "street cred" while obviously harboring major corporate ambitions.

2. As a singer and songwriter who, even as a teen, prided himself on writing well-crafted lyrics, I suspected that Stipe's trademark mumble masked a total lack of substance, that it reflected, if not total-full-of-shitness, then at least a kind of cryptic vapidity.

3. I read an interview in Spin in which Stipe indeed came off as one of the most pompous, pretentious simps I've ever seen quoted in print, the kind of adolescent imagination that equates obscurity with profundity, evasion with mystery, obfuscation with real ambiguity.

In REM's defense, I was delighted to read that they once covered Lou Gramm's "Midnight Blue," one of the finest singles of the 1980's, a grossly underappreciated song.

In the end, however, Seven Chinese Brothers equal one big steaming pile of CRAP.

Brett Ralph, you have made a beautiful post. I was delighted to read this post.

I am not being ironic. This is a beautiful and thoughtful post.

Salut, Brett Ralph of Kentucky.

Brett Eugene Ralph wrote:Lou Gramm's "Midnight Blue" [is] one of the finest singles of the 1980's [and] a grossly underappreciated song.

Brett Ralph, you and I agree on this thing!

Brett Eugene Ralph wrote:1. The critical stink made over their "jangly" guitars. As someone who was already way into "power pop" bands like Shoes, the Flamin' Groovies, and Cheap Trick, not to mention The Byrds, I saw nothing innovative about this technique. There was no evidence that I could hear to support REM's being any more "innovative" at rehashing tried and true Rickenbaker strategies than Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers, another outfit who early on strove for "street cred" while obviously harboring major corporate ambitions.

I agree with you that this dinky guitar is nothing special, and that we were told that it was.

I think Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers (first three albums only!) are 10 times the rock band that these REM are. When I saw them in 1978 with J.Geils band and George Thorogood, all three bands impressed me, and I was prepared (anxious?) to dismiss them all.

2. As a singer and songwriter who, even as a teen, prided himself on writing well-crafted lyrics, I suspected that Stipe's trademark mumble masked a total lack of substance, that it reflected, if not total-full-of-shitness, then at least a kind of cryptic vapidity.

This is a common ploy, and one I abhor. Though I rather like the lyrical content of "Man in the Moon."

But other than that, crap.

Bradley R. Weissenberger wrote:

Brett Eugene Ralph wrote:Lou Gramm's "Midnight Blue" [is] one of the finest singles of the 1980's [and] a grossly underappreciated song.

Brett Ralph, you and I agree on this thing!

i threegree

Brett Eugene Ralph wrote:
1. The critical stink made over their "jangly" guitars. As someone who was already way into "power pop" bands like Shoes, the Flamin' Groovies, and Cheap Trick, not to mention The Byrds, I saw nothing innovative about this technique. There was no evidence that I could hear to support REM's being any more "innovative" at rehashing tried and true Rickenbaker strategies than Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers, another outfit who early on strove for "street cred" while obviously harboring major corporate ambitions.

I'm not sure R.E.M. ever denied the influence of any of these groups, much less put forth the idea that they were trying to innovate. They've even performed with Roger McGuinn onstage. I think it's okay to appreciate a band that doesn't go down in history as completely breaking new ground in the style of whatever it is they do. I also don't think, in the beginning at least, that R.E.M. had any "corporate ambitions". I think it was that they worked really hard and it just ended up paying off. They just attracted alot of attention at a time when people already were looking to Athens as a place where interesting things were happening. The "critical stink" made over the jangly guitars was just that; a critical stink. If the band had manipulated this element into something for critics to grab onto, that would be one thing, but they didn't and it gets in the way of making an assesment of the sound of the band on it's own merits.

Brett Eugene Ralph wrote:
2. As a singer and songwriter who, even as a teen, prided himself on writing well-crafted lyrics, I suspected that Stipe's trademark mumble masked a total lack of substance, that it reflected, if not total-full-of-shitness, then at least a kind of cryptic vapidity.

Early interviews with the band indicate that the intended effect of Stipe's vocal was to act as more or less another instrument in the band, and that the lyrics would be improvised each performance to a certain degree to fulfill the rhythmic and melodic space of another instrument rather than just being "the lead vocal". Besides, the guy was what, 19 or 20 at the time? I mean, what a perfect age to be writing meaningless lyrics that you would never think to be held accountable for.

Brett Eugene Ralph wrote:
3. I read an interview in Spin in which Stipe indeed came off as one of the most pompous, pretentious simps I've ever seen quoted in print, the kind of adolescent imagination that equates obscurity with profundity, evasion with mystery, obfuscation with real ambiguity.

In the early days of the band Stipe was known to be painfully shy outside the context of the group. For me, part of the appeal of the group in the early days was the mystery and ambiguity that came with not knowing every detail about everything to do with the band. Historically, other bands have contrived and manipulated this element, but I really don't think R.E.M. were guilty of that. I think to be coming out of Athens at that time would contribute to them being as honest as you would be led to believe. I really think that, at that time, it probably didn't occur to them that they could fake profundity, mystery, and ambiguity. I stick to my belief that they were the real deal.

I've been listening to Around the Sun quite a bit lately. Probably more than I need to. But it is good- it grows on you.

Soooo....the singles compilation from two years ago is being reissued with a bunch of extra stuff as part of this new reissue campaign. This is irritating collector-bait, as it contains further "bonus" material that was not on the original "limited edition" 2 disc pressing. WTF? I know it doesn't really have anything to do with the music itself, but this strikes me as underhanded and annoying. I guess that's Warner Brothers (or any major) for you...