alex maiolo wrote:If Gore had been elected in 2000, do you think we'd be at war in Iraq now? Do you think privatising Social Security, repealing the Estate Tax, deregulating strip mining, allowing for increased levels of lead in drinking water would have been high on the agenda? What about domestic wiretapping and looking for angles to unlevel the internet playing field? Blurring the line between Church and State?



There is a difference and it's huge.

-A

There is certainly a difference. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. However, I feel that everything on your list here, with the exception of the unbelievable public Church/State machinations, could very well have been worked to through a different path, via the Democrats. I feel that the current Republican flavor of legislation and execution has accomplished as much as they have as a direct result of the bedrock of Clinton era deregulation. While the visions in terms of social policy have shifted, the wildly unchecked possibilites for implementing said policies, or indeed anything a relatively small group of elites deems necessary policy, has become extravagant. We can blame the Reps for the obvious things...what Reagan and Co. did to our country's support for the mentally ill, etc. Horrible, and obviously so. Business deregulation is more insidious, and much more powerful across the board. I'm sure you know and wrestle with this...you work within the battlefield of insurance, no? My main point here, placed a little too contrarian perhaps, is that control over capital ends up deciding the playing field for all these policies. Our abilities to regulate that capital defensively has been severely crippled, and the results are obvious.

Maybe the solution is to redirect the Dems.

Being moderate, whatever that actually means these days, doesn't seem to be working for them. The last election showed us that people would (barely) rather have the guy who invented the bad policies than someone who ostensibly didn't mind them at worst.

A few paragraphs back, I ranted about how aspiring to be Middle Class in the richest country in the world doesn't seem to be good enough for people anymore. The Dems need to reclaim the Middle Class, both as a demographic and a concept.

It might actually work if the Dems work on a "government is not the problem" platform at a time when people genuinely need help and leadership. An old school Dem with worn shoes, North Eastern thriftiness, charisma and a plan of WPA proportions might do well. I wouldn't bet my house on this, but the alternative of doing what they are doing is no good.

In the meantime, I will look for differences, because they are always there, and vote for the lesser of two evils.

I don't, mind you, think Gore would have taken us to war in Iraq or anyhthing close to it. Had we been attacked on 9/11, I think he would have used the world's goodwill positvely and not spit in their face. That might have meant action in Afghanistan with the world behind us, but I think that would have stopped there.
To me, that is a huge core difference between him and Bush.

I am in insurance, yes. It is one hell of a window into the world.

-A

I think there might be a vaccum soon that could allow a fairly radical Democrat, or even an independent, to show up and attempt something more valid than the current 'range' of choices allow. I hope so. Getting old waiting...

I remember when the Clinton administration 'colluded' with the 'military action' style bombing of that pharmaceutical factory guilty of the crime of producing inexpensive antibiotics (copyrighted) deemed illegal under current trade agreements. Criminal. Lots more where that came from.

Speaking of copyright law, jesus christ. Clinton and Co. knew what they were doing there. Copyrighting genetic strains? What?

There were piles of armed actions. The scale was smaller, granted. I really don't like being told I have to vote for killing more or less people I don't personally know. Not one bit. But yeah, the Iraq war is beyond unbelievable...

OK, I'm voting Bush II.

This shouldn't be such a tough question. To narrow it down a bit, no American president has done more harm to US foreign relations than Bush Jr.

At least under Reagan America was not viewed as a quasi- pariah state.

Mazec wrote:This shouldn't be such a tough question. To narrow it down a bit, no American president has done more harm to US foreign relations than Bush Jr.

At least under Reagan America was not viewed as a quasi- pariah state.

Judging by the results of the poll, people agree with you for the most part.

The thing is, here in America, among some, Regan has an almost mythical status. Some people in this forum aren't having any of it.

It's important to note that Bush II's asecendency to President could not have happened without Regan, who's cabinet changed the political landscape entirely. Not for the better, I might add. Politcs got a lot nastier in the 80s.

Once all of that is noted, and Regan has been put back on the hook, then clearly Bush II gets The Prize.

-A

This thread is a good example of how peoples memories mellow with time.

as far as i can tell...

bush takes reagan's evil farther.

the only thing that i think was worse under reagan is the fear of nuclear apocalypse. but hey, some neocons want to go in that direction with the mini-nukes (gateway drug?).

I was born during the later years of the Reagan administration, so I am really in no position to judge; however, I believe that Bush has done even more damage to the country than Reagan did.

trilonaut wrote:as far as i can tell...

bush takes reagan's evil farther.

the only thing that i think was worse under reagan is the fear of nuclear apocalypse. but hey, some neocons want to go in that direction with the mini-nukes (gateway drug?).

I'm pretty sure the Nuke 'threats' of the Regan era were useful propoganda to keep the respective populations in check. I don't feel that secure about making that statement under the Bush...

If any of you are finding this at all difficult, how about we compare their spawn? Bush twins vs. Ron Reagan, Jr.

So easy.

Fuck you, Bush. You are the worst president.