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Wood Goblin wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:17 am I can’t stand the “it’s my choice” argument, because the it’s-my-choice crowd never, ever actually accepts the risks. When faced with serious consequences, every last one of them calls their doctor, calls 911, rushes to the ER, begs for medication, accepts ventilation.

"I don't get sick." - what an unvaxxed relative of mine says. No flu shots either.

I got double-Pfizer'd as soon as my workplace made them available for all employees. My Mom is a nurse, so she wanted us to get the jabs ASAP.

I'm getting married in December, and my fiancee and I are going to put a "if you are not vaccinated, we kindly ask you to wear a mask if attending" message on our invitations.

Fully vaccinated w/2x AZ and did it as soon as I could. Lots of idiots in Australia and now the shit's hit the fan here. Australian federal & some state govts have acted stupidly at crucial moments - Delta is in the country and spreading rapidly thorough NSW. Some morons still believe the whole thing is some elaborate hoax. Wish I'd moved to NZ like I planned to years ago. Moderna booster shots expected next year.

one shot here in Australia. love having my month of holiday be forced to be a staycation because the pandemic went haywire right as I was booking travel plans. ah well.

I got the AstraZeneca even though our corrupt, incompetent, treasonous state government fucked up the messaging on it. knocked me on my ass for a day, but now feeling 100% fine. second shot is due in October - would have loved to get that Pfizer protection earlier, but hey, why would a federal government buy sufficient vaccines for a population?

Jesus Goddamn Christ. Get the shot. Not one goddamn thing in the universe is guaranteed, and expecting medicine to be 100% infallible is infantile.

Take a stats class. Fuck.

Frankie99 wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:17 pm Jesus Goddamn Christ. Get the shot. Not one goddamn thing in the universe is guaranteed, and expecting medicine to be 100% infallible is infantile.

I can't help wondering how many of these people are also taking things that have been prescribed that are far more risky: monoclonal antibodies, statins, benzodiazpines fer shitsakes - all things that cause far more occurrence of complications than a mRNA vaccine possible could.

Take a stats class. Fuck.

Exactly! You'd think that even a moment of grade-school level odds would convince most folks. Even if, generously, your chance of serious long term problems or death from catching it was 1:1000, and if conservatively, the incidence of serious problems with the vaccines were 1:10,000, that's still a 10:1 advantage, and with the reality being more like 1:100 and 1:100,000, that's a 1000:1 advantage - not odds even the dumbest gambler would want to bet against.

losthighway wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:04 am There seems to be a popular fallacious thought amongst the anti-vaxers, or the vaccine skeptical that since being vaccinated isn't proving to be a 100% guarantee against infection or spread, then it's not good at all. Fortunately in addition to being vaccinated, we can also wear masks.

It's not fallacious thinking to acknowledge the weaknesses in the pitch.

The vaccines reduce symptoms - in turn this reduces transmission rates (via reducing coughing). Agreed. But this is an observable and avoidable problem (i.e: if I'm coughing I can stay away from others, I can stay away from others I see coughing).

However, many of us will experience very mild cases of COVID and unknowingly spread it, with or without the vaccine. I'm not expecting 100% efficacy - but it seems that there is little evidence that the vaccines are a relevant factor in one of the biggest potential threats (youngish, healthy-ish people unknowingly spreading the virus to more vulnerable people who could die).

So I supported pausing our routines until vulnerable people had access to the vaccine. It was unfair to exclude swathes of people from public life, even once we had a handle on the risks of COVID. But the logic in the arguments behind still pushing for nationwide vaccine schemes for COVID eludes me - I suspect it comes down to money, not public health.

Masks solve nothing. Unless you're wearing medical-grade material for short periods of time (and who is in the general public is doing that) then mask wearing (especially the reusable cloth masks most of us use) is irrational tokenism at best. Like using a tennis net to catch mosquitos...

Frankie99 wrote: Take a stats class. Fuck.

One could counter the same point when assessing the actual risk the virus poses for the vast majority of us.

M.H wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:48 am
However, many of us will experience very mild cases of COVID and unknowingly spread it, with or without the vaccine. I'm not expecting 100% efficacy - but it seems that there is little evidence that the vaccines are a relevant factor in one of the biggest potential threats (youngish, healthy-ish people unknowingly spreading the virus to more vulnerable people who could die).

This is not true. The delta variant has shown a tendency to produce more dangerous symptoms in "youngish, healthy-ish people".

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... 9-patients

^ There's a better NY Times article, but I've run into their paywall.

So to your point about transmission. Again, the majority of vaccinated people do not become infected with the delta variant. Asymptomatic spread is a proven concern, but the most likely scenario is the vaccinated person remains uninfected and can't spread the virus. In the event that they are infected, it has been shown that their viral load is reduced within the body much faster than the unvaccinated, making their contagious period many times shorter.

I'm trying to understand how your argument is not akin to someone saying, "Some partners who use condoms still get pregnant, so I refuse to use one." Or, "Some helmet-wearing bicyclists are still fatalities in traffic accidents, so why wear one?".

Furthermore, against the benefit of an almost guarantee against hospitalization, a strong likelihood you'd have no case at all, an greatly reduced chance of spread, you've remained hesitant. What is the cost of receiving the vaccine, that would deter you from receiving these benefits?

I blame the absolutely piss-poor education system in this country. People fear what they don’t understand, and thanks to the super low levels of people who even have a basic understanding of cellular biology and biochemistry, they have no way of objectively parsing the information out there.

We are in an era where just learning the RRRs is about as good as getting a fifth grade education in a one room schoolhouse in 1950. We need a revolution in how young people understand the world around them, and an equal push in public programs to help their dumbass parents and grandparents come along for the ride.

Of course all of this meets reticence in the half of states and communities where people worry too much education will make their kids stop believing in Gawd. But as I get older I’m starting to see clearly that the notions of parental rights, and notions of personal liberties without responsibilities is how a society can best continue to pave a smooth road to hell.

Fully vaccinated as of April 1. My sister's sorority was running a vaccination drive on the far south side of Chicago. At first I feared I was line-jumping but soon grew not to care. Certainly wasn't my first time with the business-end of a needle, and I'd do it again.

End of March and end of April. Moderna. No serious side effects, but was kinda out of sorts/not at all myself on Sunday after my Friday afternoon 2nd shot. Whatever...

My employer is offering incentives to get the shot. I work for the largest flat rolled steel producer in the US. There's maybe 30 different facilities in the US and the HMFIC has a challenge out there by facility. Every employee at facilities that achieve 75% - 84.9% vax by August 21 get a $1500 cash bonus. Over 85% gets you $3000. My facility with about 500 employees is currently at 48% and hasn't changed much at all since the challenge began. We even brought vaccinators out to the plant for free walk-in shots, all heavily publicized, long enough during the day to get the breaks in shifts (we work 24/7 here). 21 people took the chance. That's it. Fucking maddening. Those of us that did get shot will still get $200 when the challenge times out, but still...