It's been years since this started happening....

If we were talking about if we failed the kids who wind up shooting people, maybe once, for every five times we talk about the guns?

It might be making a dent by now.

Not saying there should be no discussion about guns.

That said, it is way the Hell past time that folks acknowledge that "Guns..." is only one side of that coin.

Plenty of other places on Earth would not have a notable issue even if we started air dropping automatic rifles on them starting Monday.

Why that is probably needs to be what is on the news come Thursday of every single week.

numberthirty wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:21 pmIf we were talking about if we failed the kids who wind up shooting people, maybe once, for every five times we talk about the guns...

Far from irrelevant, but also way less pressing than how we failed the innocent kids who were killed.

Easy access to these things enables these events. That's the primary issue for now, the material reality. Above all that's how America differs, the proliferation of guns in tandem with (in some places) rabbid state-approved gun culture.

From the NYT yesterday.

Surprised to see Sweden so high on that list - I suppose it's because of hunting, being probably the explanation for Canada as well. Small population also means you don't need a lot to end up with a higher average. I expected Switzerland to be way on top, given that this is the only country approaching an American kind of gun culture, also being the only other country as hardcore republican (in the classical sense) as the US.

kokorodoko wrote: Surprised to see Sweden so high on that list - I suppose it's because of hunting, being probably the explanation for Canada as well. Small population also means you don't need a lot to end up with a higher average. I expected Switzerland to be way on top, given that this is the only country approaching an American kind of gun culture, also being the only other country as hardcore republican (in the classical sense) as the US.

kokorodoko wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 6:16 am Surprised to see Sweden so high on that list - I suppose it's because of hunting

It's definitely because of hunting and I actually didn't find it surprising-the elk hunting season is a big deal here in sweden. Since I've lived in Gothenburg my whole life, It's not something I can relate to but I know people, including an ex gf from Östersund, from the northern parts who has made it clear that owning a Gun for hunting related reasons is quite common here.

Anyway, crap on guns. I just read that the racist behind the Buffalo shooting was talking regularly to a former cop in chatrooms and informing him on his plans well ahead of the incident so yeah, crap on cops, racists and USA as well...

Anthony Flack wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 5:46 am From the NYT yesterday.

Screen Shot 2022-05-27 at 10.41.41 PM copy.jpg

Jesus, In the US that's more guns than people. WTF?!

This graph completely ignores types of guns too. Maybe it's irrelevant? But I'm pretty sure some of these countries don't allow handguns and semi-automatic weapons - which, I'm guessing is what the vast majority of gun murders in the US are committed with. Maybe that's the same in other countries, but I'd like to see if the ratio of type of gun follows the data more closely.

The US has several issues. 1) way more guns. 2) too easy access to owning a gun (background check, training, etc). 3) macho gun culture

tommy wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:26 am 3) macho gun culture

I can't agree enough about this. As a parent of a 7 year old boy, it's so obvious that from birth this narrative of "be a hero with a gun!" indoctrinates our young boys, and it's really hard as a parent to constantly push back on this. Conversely, of course, girls a pushed into the "caretaker" role, which society devalues nearly to the point of contempt.

You cannot address gun violence without also addressing bullshit male roles. We have got to get to a point where the narrative is the real heroes are people who use their physical and emotional resources to care for the people who need them, and show up and do the fucking work, and not buy into this "hero with a gun" crap.

As much as I hate to dive in, everybody in the US needs to understand the difference between a single shot bolt action hunting rifle:
and a semiautomatic AR-15 style assault rifle:
They are not the same thing, and they are not designed or used for the same purposes.


Handguns are an entirely different ball of wax. I see no reason for anyone to own a handgun unless they are outdoors a lot in wolf/bear/mountain lion country.

My dad and stepmom recently moved to a town of 15,000, about a hour and a half away from big, bad, scary Chicago. They purchased a handgun legally for home protection, because the GOP is going to make "those people" really desperate. And criminals always target retirees the most. I've told them over the years that if they or anyone else I know has a gun in their home, I will not go there. I cite that study from the late 90s that the NRA quashed, that showed that you are 5-10 times more likely to harm yourself, loved one, friend than a hypothetical situation where someone breaks in to steal muh flatscreens. And on a side note, someone attempting to steal something you own means that they forfeit their life? That's really fucked in the head thinking.

My dad is a psychopath, he was violent during my parent's marriage (destroyed our house with punches and kicks) and attacked a caretaker of my brother's (he would have killed her if not for my mom yelling and screaming at him). He's never been charged with a crime, so he passed the background check for his Sig Sauer pistol. Cool cool cool.

twelvepoint wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:46 am You cannot address gun violence without also addressing bullshit male roles. We have got to get to a point where the narrative is the real heroes are people who use their physical and emotional resources to care for the people who need them, and show up and do the fucking work, and not buy into this "hero with a gun" crap.

I hate toxic masculine bullshit too, but we're hardly the only country to embody that. Russia doesn't have frequent mass shootings and their flag is practically a hard on riding a horse. Machismo places like Mexico and the Phillippines do have gun violence problems, but a lot of that is poverty and gang driven (police are gangs too). I don't know.. it's hard for me not to think the overriding, uniquely American factor is the willful misinterpretation of the 2nd Amendment (if it's even necessary at all), the NRA, and the shameless politicians and right wing "news" outlets who capitulate.

AdamN wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 11:19 am And on a side note, someone attempting to steal something you own means that they forfeit their life? That's really fucked in the head thinking.

Yes.. exactly. "you're stealing my lawnmower, therefore I wanna blow yr head off". Not fucked up at all..