Premier Rock Forum

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:59 am**

It surprises me a little (even on sessions I've been on) when the snare and kick get 'fancy' mic pres* vs the overheads or overall drum picture mics. The latter seems where any additional clarity or 'airiness' would matter. Snare top and kick mics (especially if they're inside) sound goofy regardless, and really only make sense for filling out the bigger picture.

*though sometimes, it may have to do the unusual gain or impedance needs of weirdo mics like Altecs or the Beyer m380 vs 'flavor'.

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:27 am**

penningtron wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:59 am It surprises me a little (even on sessions I've been on) when the snare and kick get 'fancy' mic pres* vs the overheads or overall drum picture mics. The latter seems where any additional clarity or 'airiness' would matter. Snare top and kick mics (especially if they're inside) sound goofy regardless, and really only make sense for filling out the bigger picture.

*though sometimes, it may have to do the unusual gain or impedance needs of weirdo mics like Altecs or the Beyer m380 vs 'flavor'.

Yeah I always use my general favorites (the Great Rivers) on overheads. I figure those mics are capturing the greatest complexity of frequency information. A kick drum is comparatively simple- you want to capture the transient well and get the low end.

I say this reiterating that my favorite preamps are offering me about a 5% sonic difference at most, while switching from small diaphragm to large diaphragm condensers to ribbons or even moving the mics around give a totally different aural perspective.

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:35 pm**

SurfySpark wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:32 pm
numberthirty wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:32 pmEmpirical Labs
Wow! I love these. Yes. I have to get a Fatso and two Distressors now. Well not right now but when I restore my savings! THANKS for this, these look awesome. First the Allen & Heath board, then some preamps, then these.

Those 500 series power supplies look super intimidating.

Ok...

I didn't really say "We..." should start planning on throwing around money like Nino Brown.

Just thought about the "Unexciting..." aspect of the preamps on what you have. If you have the channels to leave yourself some to go back an forth using some of the processing in the F.A.T.S.O Jr?

It seems like it could potentially address what you feel is a shortcoming without really having to plunk the cash down on a board/preamps.

Again, that's just my "What is the cheapest potential solution here?..." take. You might be set on making a change.

As for the "500 Series..." looking intimidating, are you talking about this?

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... b-lunchbox

If so? They are honestly a lot more "Bonehead..."-friendly that you would think.

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:43 pm**

losthighway wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:27 am
penningtron wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:59 am It surprises me a little (even on sessions I've been on) when the snare and kick get 'fancy' mic pres* vs the overheads or overall drum picture mics. The latter seems where any additional clarity or 'airiness' would matter. Snare top and kick mics (especially if they're inside) sound goofy regardless, and really only make sense for filling out the bigger picture.

*though sometimes, it may have to do the unusual gain or impedance needs of weirdo mics like Altecs or the Beyer m380 vs 'flavor'.
Yeah I always use my general favorites (the Great Rivers) on overheads. I figure those mics are capturing the greatest complexity of frequency information. A kick drum is comparatively simple- you want to capture the transient well and get the low end.

I say this reiterating that my favorite preamps are offering me about a 5% sonic difference at most, while switching from small diaphragm to large diaphragm condensers to ribbons or even moving the mics around give a totally different aural perspective.

One thing here that really was an eye opener for me a short while back...

Before it was taken down, Eric Valentine had this YouTube video where he broke down the details of how he had recorded the Queens Of The Stone Age tune "No One Knows".

When he got to how he had gone about recording the bass, one of the things they did was split the bass and run it to a Peavey Rage(or a Peavey guitar amp about that size...) while putting a ribbon microphone in front of it.

When he got to bringing up the separate "Bass..." signals together or apart? It was jarring just how much that Peavey Rage/Ribbon contributed to what I personally felt like the core of that bass sound was.

So, yeah...

Not saying that preamps/boards/processing don't play a bit of a role. Just that sometimes the source and the microphone involved bring way more to the table than the preamp.

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:41 pm**

penningtron wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:59 am It surprises me a little (even on sessions I've been on) when the snare and kick get 'fancy' mic pres* vs the overheads or overall drum picture mics. The latter seems where any additional clarity or 'airiness' would matter. Snare top and kick mics (especially if they're inside) sound goofy regardless, and really only make sense for filling out the bigger picture.

*though sometimes, it may have to do the unusual gain or impedance needs of weirdo mics like Altecs or the Beyer m380 vs 'flavor'.

Was having this conversation at work the other day and I was the odd man out. My arguement was something like any subtitles from using a different mic pre on something really transient won't really be heard in a mix but room and OH mics are kinda an always on situation and more likely to matter. For kick and snare it's mic choice and placement that matter to me. I usually just use board pres for them.

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:49 pm**

Mickey242 wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:49 am A mic into a pre amp is the front end. They are the most important factors.

True. The thing here is that marketing has convinced people that the preamps in a console are inferior to fancy pants outboard gear and I argue that isn't true and even on midrange and live boards those are actually pretty sound circuits that preform really well. It's why the are in there. It's like the op amp arguement, people try to convince you rolling to higher end op amps changes your life but in practice there is very little difference you can hear especially in a mix. Tl07X op amps are great. So are 5588. It's why they are all over the place. Not saying there is no diff, just you hVe to decide where dollar spent to sound satisfaction unit ratio becomes worth it. I say buying a variety of good mics is where you will really hear the most change for your change.

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:36 pm**

Kniferide wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:41 pm Was having this conversation at work the other day and I was the odd man out. My arguement was something like any subtitles from using a different mic pre on something really transient won't really be heard in a mix but room and OH mics are kinda an always on situation and more likely to matter. For kick and snare it's mic choice and placement that matter to me. I usually just use board pres for them.

Right. Sure, maybe a Neve or whatever can add a little more low end to a kick mic, but so can, y'know, EQ. (and different mic choices and placement, etc..)

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:26 pm**

SurfySpark wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:32 pm
Those 500 series power supplies look super intimidating.

Nah, 5 minutes tops to plug in a new module and get it going. They pretty much just slide right in. Plug and play to the point you couldn't even call it a DIY project like changing pickups in a guitar or something.

The cool thing about 500 series is after you buy the boring power supply you can mix and match all manner of preamps, compressors, eqs etc.

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:03 pm**

losthighway wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:26 pm
SurfySpark wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:32 pm
The cool thing about 500 series is after you buy the boring power supply you can mix and match all manner of preamps, compressors, eqs etc.
The only advantage of 500 I can see is size. The units per ch aren't really less expensive than rack units and for the cost of a chassis I can buy like another whole thing to actually use. I do see it useful if you are in a tight space though.

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:13 pm**

numberthirty wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:43 pm
When he got to how he had gone about recording the bass, one of the things they did was split the bass and run it to a Peavey Rage(or a Peavey guitar amp about that size...) while putting a ribbon microphone in front of it.

It was a Peavey Decade. Cheap practice amps that probably retailed for $49 back in the day. They're going for $500 now, purely because of the QOTSA thing.

On the secret pro tip, you can get a Peavey Audition 20, which is essentially the same circuit with a higher rail voltage for more power, for like $100.

I read somewhere that St. Vincent commissioned somebody to build that circuit into a pedal. Wouldn't be too difficult.

Premier Rock Forum

Preamps

Re: Preamps

Re: Preamps

Re: Preamps

Re: Preamps

Re: Preamps

Re: Preamps

Re: Preamps

Re: Preamps

Re: Preamps

Re: Preamps