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Anthony Flack wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 10:57 pm For anything to have a beginning but not an end seems wrong, intuitively; almost mathematically.

I tend to console myself about death with similar thinking. I'm pretty sure I wasn't alive before and to the best of my recollection it was fine.

I supposedly live in a place with multiple ghosts. Never seen one. Sucks. So I guess put me down as “believe it when I see it.” Still, ghosts: NC

losthighway wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 11:16 pm

Anthony Flack wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 10:57 pm For anything to have a beginning but not an end seems wrong, intuitively; almost mathematically.

I tend to console myself about death with similar thinking. I'm pretty sure I wasn't alive before and to the best of my recollection it was fine.

I'm not sure if I was or wasn't alive before because one needs to have a *functioning* brain to have memory.

I certainly don't know the answer, but if you were to ask me my opinion, I think it is plausible that ghosts are real, as is reincarnation. I like Stanley Kubrick's musings on this.

I grew up on the edge of the Hockomock Swamp in Mass and remember seeing strange lights as a young kid. It may have just been a prank.

Anthony Flack wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 10:57 pm Kind of boring to me as stories, maybe interesting as psychology

Do you mean the relating of personal experiences or genre authors?

Personally I think believing your special self must somehow be more than a silly sack of meat is typical of human ego, but I tend to be pretty down on the idea of higher purpose generally, and anyway oblivion seems like the kinder option to me.

We are much more than silly sacks of meat. We can comprehend the expression and receipt of love, we create art, we can heal ourselves and each other often without medical degrees. I can't say if any of that has to do with a higher purpose, but I believe it speaks more towards how unique and often inscrutable our humanity is. The mechanics of existence, of us being here alive in these flesh suits is just too bizarre for me to write it off as coming from and returning to nothingness.

For anything to have a beginning but not an end seems wrong, intuitively; almost mathematically.

I subscribe to the school of thought that our Universe technically has no end in that its existence is cyclical. We weren't here for the previous cycle and certainly won't stick around for the next one. I'm not a physicist obviously but I think the Conservation of Matter applies here. We are matter and therefore subject to chemical reactions and rearrangements. Humanity might just be a different state of matter, but it's a special state and I wouldn't consider it hubris to believe that we are somewhat special.

I love a good ghost tale



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rsmurphy wrote: Do you mean the relating of personal experiences or genre authors?

I'm not really into genre authors either, no particular reason. But yeah, I suppose it's more the relating of personal experiences or "true stories" that hinge on the possibility that the spooky thing might be evidence of ghostly forces at work. Much like hearing about times that Jesus appeared, I'd just rather not.

Heathcliff let me in a-your window, sure. But fictional ghost stories usually aren't ABOUT ghosts. The Shining is about a whole Youtube genre worth of non-ghost stuff. Ghostbusters is SO played out, but yeah it's about friends starting a business.

As for special states of matter, as far as I can see humans exist on a continuum with all other life on Earth, down to the simplest bacteria, past that to viruses and the near infinitesimal, non-living sub-viruses and viroids that cover every surface, through individual chemical reactions, to atoms, to quarks, quantum whateverthefuck all the way down to nothingness save for the seemingly self-actualising principles of mathematics, in an unbroken chain which makes us all as one, but also leaves no special carve-outs for human exceptionalism. I don't think you can draw a hard line between humans and other animals. Or between animals and plants. The idea of an individual human coalescing in a cosmic instant and then declaring itself to be too special to dissipate again, it's not a belief that I have much use for when trying to square up me vs the void. Otherwise ghosts of dinosaurs yeah, but also ghosts of rocks. Ghosts of dead suns.

I feel like contemplating the impermanence of all things is more... helpful? Useful? Acceptable? In an ultimately futile way. More chewable?

Well, it might help some people to act like less of a dick about their precious legacy, anyway.

The closest I've ever gotten to identifying as religious was a period of time when I was regularly attending English services at a Theravada Buddhist temple. I have many thoughts about that experience I'll save for another thread, but one thing that stuck with me that pertains to ghosts; the belief in impersonal rebirth not reincarnation.

The idea is that what is immortal is consciousness itself. Much of our consciousness is undifferentiated, cosmic, nature expressing its awareness. Our identity (which is largely illusory) is merely a temporary concentration or shape of that consciousness. The idea that the water would hold the same shape after the jar is broken is impossible.

Reincarnation is very romantic. Rebirth has a stronger natural analog.

losthighway wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 8:21 pm Reincarnation is very romantic. Rebirth has a stronger natural analog.

Never thought of them being different, and even after taking a few minutes on the internet reading up on it, still not really sure that the difference is that significant.

Or if it really matters anyway. Once your brain dies, you won’t remember anything.

Heavily depends on whether the particular ghost was C or NC while they were alive.