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Wood Goblin wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 12:32 pm In the 50 years since then, you have much, much cheaper means of recording sound. But in terms of actual improvements to the sound itself, it’s really only at the margins. There’s no Great Leap Forward comparable to the ones in the 1920s or 1950s.

I dunno. Digital Audio gets a bad wrap around these parts but the Signal to noise and dynamic range of modern Digital recorded media, especially with what 32bit is capable of is fantastic. Conversion is fantastic. There is no longer a such thing as "cold" digital sound. Circuitry design is more efficient and specs a lot better on paper, doesn't require near as much power, and weighs a shit ton less. And yeah, it is cheaper and I think that means quite a lot when a basic consumer can get a system for playback with fantastic specs that you don't have to sell your first born to afford. The jumps seem more dramatic early on because you were basically jumping for intolerable audio to "Oh this actually kind of sounds good" to Now things sound great. After that things are going to seem incremental but I think what has happened is the tech has just out run what really matters on a consumer level.

Oh, not disputing that digital can sound fantastic. I just meant that, for example, a contemporary Mary Halvorsen jazz record doesn’t sound that much better (if it even sounds better at all) than, say, Giant Steps. It might have been much easier and cheaper to record, however.

Whereas a recordings from 1924 vs 1934 sound worlds apart.

Wood Goblin wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 2:43 pm Oh, not disputing that digital can sound fantastic. I just meant that, for example, a contemporary Mary Halvorsen jazz record doesn’t sound that much better (if it even sounds better at all) than, say, Giant Steps. It might have been much easier and cheaper to record, however.

Whereas a recordings from 1924 vs 1934 sound worlds apart.

Because Hitler dug cool microphones probably.

Kniferide wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 2:16 pm The jumps seem more dramatic early on because you were basically jumping for intolerable audio to "Oh this actually kind of sounds good" to Now things sound great. After that things are going to seem incremental but I think what has happened is the tech has just out run what really matters on a consumer level.

Right. Circling back to "perfection": whether noise floors and unlimited tracks matter when it comes to how people respond emotionally to music.

That emulation is such a huge market is almost an admittance that many of the old methods sounded better to people.

Every time I hear the chorus of "Peg" it reminds me of a sleazy-cheezy 70's singles bar. Mission accomplished I guess.

penningtron wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 3:09 pm

Kniferide wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 2:16 pm The jumps seem more dramatic early on because you were basically jumping for intolerable audio to "Oh this actually kind of sounds good" to Now things sound great. After that things are going to seem incremental but I think what has happened is the tech has just out run what really matters on a consumer level.

That emulation is such a huge market is almost an admittance that many of the old methods sounded better to people.

I would never say that old ways don't sound good, but would say the new ways can sound just as good. Exactly as good in fact. Marketing gets a ton of credit here, as they found it very easy to get people to buy plugins if they really hit that "Vintage Vibe" angle hard. That shit is fake as hell.

A lot of Emulation, Modeled or simulated, is total mojo nonsense. So much of it is just some EQ and a little Saturation, or can be done with as little as that. I was trying to convince some younger guys I work with that a properly maintained professional tape machine running new tape at high speed was kinda transparent unless you really hit it hard. Just really didn't have much of a "sound" at all. To them when they think "analog" sound, they mean totally blown out and distorted, or even filtered. They don't understand that that was just an obtainable effect and not the operating norm.
I actually think that will bounce back too. Right now Saturation is the go to finishing sound in modern pop mixing. Everything is BLOWN THE FUCK OUT! I saw a video the other day where some fool was discussing on when it is best to use hard clipping saturation AS OPPOSED TO a leveler or compressor for mastering bus processing.

In like 5 years I think as clean a mix a s you can possible get will probably be hip. Just takes one carefully groomed and funded Pop star to change the way.

I don’t think it’s just the emulations - the limitations that made old records sound like that are never coming back.

In a lot or ways Spirit of Eden was really prescient. It was recorded in a late 80s studio on an SSL, but they used old mics and spliced it together piece by piece to make it sound like it was recorded in the 60s, but in turn creating something else entirely.

My listening test record is Marquee Moon - I believe Verlaine picked the room at A&R recording they did that one in because of the tube console, though I understand from reading that Andy Johns was underwhelmed both by the studio and the experience of recording one of the best records ever.

Other favorites are On The Beach and Oar- i think I’m partial to musicians kind of dicking around while being recorded by people who really know what they’re doing - but also slightly more businesslike endeavors like all those Sound Techniques records with Richard and Linda Thompson, Nick, etc. Van Gelder stuff. We are never going back but we don’t have to either.

penningtron wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:48 am

Carl wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:30 am Would see a Steely Dan covers band played like Flipper (Will Shatter era).

Might join a Steely Dan covers band played like Flipper.

I'd probably go see Sloppy Dan.

How about a outlaw country SD cover band called Steely Dang?

How about a math rock SD cover band called Steely Don Caballero?

How about a goth rock SD cover band called Steely Danzig?

How about a nerd rock (think TMBG) SD cover band called Irony Daniel?

How about I shut up now?

llllllllllllllllllll wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 7:23 pm I don’t think it’s just the emulations - the limitations that made old records sound like that are never coming back.

Working within limitations is just a decision you can make. If you wanted to make a record that sounds like leader of the pack you could. VROOOOM! VROOOOM!