alandeus wrote:The same urbane urbanites who cluck their tongues at the NASCAR-lovin' tourists who crane their necks to take in the skyscrapers are the same ones who get batshit overjoyed at seeing airplanes - in a city that has one of the busiest airports in the country. Retards.

I guess that makes me a retard - although I don't cluck my tongue at NASCAR-lovin' tourists (I do, however, give my friend endless amounts of shit for being in a fantasy NASCAR league). I actually am still a bit amazed when I see a 747 take off - it represents the culmination of a lot of learning over the years. Seeing one that breaks the speed of sound ups the ante a little bit for me.

the whole thing would mean a lot more and be so much cooler if the planes actualy had dogfights over the lake, blowing each other up and shit

Rick Reuben wrote:Video of SU-27 crashing at a Ukrainian air show, 80+ dead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hk965DKxGQ

Graphic. Body parts spread across the field. You have been warned.

Air Show: Expensive and dangerous war commercial. CRAP.

That video is fucked up.

Rick Reuben wrote:

Marsupialized wrote:the whole thing would mean a lot more and be so much cooler if the planes actualy had dogfights over the lake, blowing each other up and shit

There's a real dearth of dogfights world wide right now, and for the last 25 years. All the people we're currently blowing up barely have vehicles above the class of a Toyota pickup, let alone an Air Force. We just fly over and strafe them, free and clear. There weren't even dogfights when we fought the official Iraqi military, twice. When were the last dogfights in any war?? The Falkland Islands?

I'm going to go with Korea. The F-86 and Mig-15 were a very close match, when each planes strengths and weaknesses were taken as a whole.

This was before guided missiles, auto tracking guns, HUDs and all that shit. Just you in an early jet with a gyro-sight, 20mm and 50 cal. guns, and your raw flying skills.

That was the last time "real" dogfighting took place.

geiginni wrote:

Rick Reuben wrote:

Marsupialized wrote:the whole thing would mean a lot more and be so much cooler if the planes actualy had dogfights over the lake, blowing each other up and shit

There's a real dearth of dogfights world wide right now, and for the last 25 years. All the people we're currently blowing up barely have vehicles above the class of a Toyota pickup, let alone an Air Force. We just fly over and strafe them, free and clear. There weren't even dogfights when we fought the official Iraqi military, twice. When were the last dogfights in any war?? The Falkland Islands?

I'm going to go with Korea. The F-86 and Mig-15 were a very close match, when each planes strengths and weaknesses were taken as a whole.

This was before guided missiles, auto tracking guns, HUDs and all that shit. Just you in an early jet with a gyro-sight, 20mm and 50 cal. guns, and your raw flying skills.

That was the last time "real" dogfighting took place.

There was no real dog-fighting in Vietnam?

Rick Reuben wrote:

Marsupialized wrote:the whole thing would mean a lot more and be so much cooler if the planes actualy had dogfights over the lake, blowing each other up and shit

There's a real dearth of dogfights world wide right now, and for the last 25 years. All the people we're currently blowing up barely have vehicles above the class of a Toyota pickup, let alone an Air Force. We just fly over and strafe them, free and clear. There weren't even dogfights when we fought the official Iraqi military, twice. When were the last dogfights in any war?? The Falkland Islands?

I don't think there were any real dogfights in the Falklands war, they blew one or two planes up with missiles from miles away but as far as close air to air combat?
Dunno, been awhile
maybe some of the Israeli stuff

Rick Reuben wrote:

The Code is Almighty wrote:There was no real dog-fighting in Vietnam?

That's why I said 25 years. There was definitely air combat in Vietnam...

There was air combat in Vietnam, but it was not generally what I'd consider true "dogfighting". At supersonic speeds with guided missiles and tracking weapons, the concept of "dogfighting" becomes moot. Aircraft like the Mig-21, F-4, Su-19 and F-101 had relatively wide turning radii, high stall speed, and were not in the same league of "dogfighting" aircraft like those of Korea or WWII, which had the manueverability and lacked the technology to make combat encouters fit the notion of a "dogfight".

Isn't dog-fighting illegal?
Not Crap especially if one of them crashes into the Sears Tower. I'm a sucker for irony, and big news.

I will go. It's a good time. I particularly enjoy the displays put on by private aerobatic groups. Small biplanes and WWII trainers are the most fun to watch.

Aside from that, it's just a live commercial for the military. These aircraft are machines built to kill people, en masse. That reality does not excite me. I'm with Alberto Santos-Dumot on this. Aviation should bring a sense of joy and escape, not death.

I'm also curious to know how the military gets around CFR Title 14, in particular FAR 91.303?

And flying over downtown? FAR 91.119 Do you think these planes are more than 2000 feet from the tallest buildings down here? Or 1000 or more feet above?

Fatal accident at a Warsaw airshow this weekend. Boy, these things sure are fun for the whole family!













Video at YouTube