Dr. O' Nothing wrote:Imagine if you will Tocharian's Message Board....

A World in which C/NC, Crap/Not Crap is replaced by C/NC, Camp/Not Camp.

An example...

Band: Mission of Burma

'Oh Roger, those Ear Protectors are so Kitchy': CAMP
'Where's the affectation, gentlemen? BOR-RING!: NOT-CAMP

i just threw up a little.

The truth is, Diddy didn't really think of Hester as being blind. In the sense that the world is divided into two camps: the fortunate majority with normal eyesight, and the tiny majority of the blind. The world is not so simple. Diddy saw eyes everywhere. Everyone has some kind of eyes. There are the squinty-eyed, the fish-eyed, the dragon-eyed, the piercing-eyed, the wolf-eyed. And the no-eyed and the all-eyed. The no-eyed not to be confused with the blind.

Susan Sontag, Death Kit

Dr. O' Nothing wrote:Imagine if you will Tocharian's Message Board....

A World in which C/NC, Crap/Not Crap is replaced by C/NC, Camp/Not Camp.

An example...

Band: Mission of Burma

'Oh Roger, those Ear Protectors are so Kitchy': CAMP
'Where's the affectation, gentlemen? BOR-RING!: NOT-CAMP

Dr. O'Nothing: I weighed in on what camp was a few pages back because some posters where discussing the definition. Why don't you go play beer pong or something.

ERawk: I'm not sure I want to get into a long discussion about the extent to which a cadenza is rehearsed (it varies) or the potential for embellishment in piece of chamber music (varies also--more than just "trills"). I will say, though, that you'd be hard pressed to find a hot-shot classical musician who can't improvise something mean. They have the musicality, theoretical and technical chops to do it. Are rock musicians' improvisational skills generally comparable to jazz musicians'? I'm not quite sure what this is all about.

Anyway, I keep waiting for someone to post a stunning defense of rock as art. Anyone...

Like, in your mind you've proved or showed or said anything worthy to prove the case that rock isn't art n this thread?

tocharian wrote:Anyway, I keep waiting for someone to post a stunning defense of rock as art. Anyone...

Colonel Panic wrote:"Rock" = a genre (subset) of "music";
"Music" = a form (subset) of "art";
Therefore, "rock" = "art".

Rock is a form of music.

Music is a form of art.

Therefore, rock is a form of art.

x = y;

y = z;

->

x = z.

Dude, logical thinking is so passe!

tocharian wrote:

Dr. O' Nothing wrote:Imagine if you will Tocharian's Message Board....

A World in which C/NC, Crap/Not Crap is replaced by C/NC, Camp/Not Camp.

An example...

Band: Mission of Burma

'Oh Roger, those Ear Protectors are so Kitchy': CAMP
'Where's the affectation, gentlemen? BOR-RING!: NOT-CAMP

Dr. O'Nothing: I weighed in on what camp was a few pages back because some posters where discussing the definition. Why don't you go play beer pong or something.

Why don't you get that Ivory Tower that's stuck so far up your ass its punctured the part of your brain that processes the enjoyment of ART removed? Then, maybe we can talk about rock, art, camp, and beer (beer pong? que es?)

Until then...enjoy having Sontag do the thinking for you.

tocharian wrote: I will say, though, that you'd be hard pressed to find a hot-shot classical musician who can't improvise something mean.

Mean meaning ...uhm, "average" ?

tocharian wrote: I will say, though, that you'd be hard pressed to find a hot-shot classical musician who can't improvise something mean. They have the musicality, theoretical and technical chops to do it. Are rock musicians' improvisational skills generally comparable to jazz musicians'? I'm not quite sure what this is all about.

I have opposite experience.

In my two years of writing and producing music for TV commercials toward the end of the tape-and-musicians era, I worked with Chicago Symph. Orchestra people six or seven times.

Three of those times involved a rock or jazz soundtrack. I have news for you. While fine people, these musicians were the least improvisationally inclined or gifted I ever worked with in or out of a studio. They were avowed white-knuckled sheet-clingers. I will never forget the deer-in-the-headlights look we got from them when simple discussion of the simple score took place outside of the visual language of the manuscript.

When the session copyist (his fee an expense only necessary for these sessions with orch people) forgot to spell out tiny rests that a drummer would just feel in half a second, it hurt progress.

I'm not talking about geriatric people here, either. These were people maybe ten years out of school. They weren't being difficult on purpose, either, you could tell they just had a comfort zone and that was when the instructions were in front of their noses. Take that away, and they would actually stare at you blankly.

Anyway, thought I'd suggest that being trained to read / worship instructions can seriously get in the way of developing similar proficiency at writing / proposing instructions. It can certainly get in the way of having a conversation using music.

-r

tocharian wrote:Anyway, I keep waiting for someone to post a stunning defense of rock as art. Anyone...

Art to me is self expression and the communication of an idea, emotion, concept, whatever.

To me, that is about it.

Rock music easily falls into this definition since at it's best it is pure emotion and pure self expression.

It's ability to communicate with a great volume of people only serves to back up the idea that it is self expression and the communication of an idea.


Other definitions of art often involve stipulations over the act of creating art involving some sort of craft.

Again, rock music falls under this definition.