Colonel Panic wrote:Maybe it would be better to pose these questions on Sonic Youth's message board...

Colonel Panic wrote:But in the end, you're expending your own creative energy on somebody else's project, and that's fine as long as you feel all right about the thing you're promoting. However, if you are trying to do good work promoting something you don't have any confidence in, that's when you start to dread going in to work every day.

Skronk wrote:

Skronk wrote:But there's a definite distinction between working for them and having them release/sell your bands music. We all have to work in this world, and if you choose to work at Starbucks, fine. I doubt anyone would have a problem with that.

tommydski wrote:Isn't there's just as valid an argument saying that working for them serving coffee and working for them writing songs is essentially the same thing?

You think helping them sell coffee by having them sell your music is the same as cleaning up a coffee machine, or sweeping the floors? Come on.

tommydski wrote:

Skronk wrote:

Skronk wrote:But there's a definite distinction between working for them and having them release/sell your bands music. We all have to work in this world, and if you choose to work at Starbucks, fine. I doubt anyone would have a problem with that.

tommydski wrote:Isn't there's just as valid an argument saying that working for them serving coffee and working for them writing songs is essentially the same thing?

You think helping them sell coffee by having them sell your music is the same as cleaning up a coffee machine, or sweeping the floors? Come on.

Forget what I think, my opinion isn't important. My post was specifically worded to the effect that there is just as valid argument saying that in both circumstances a payment is being made for a service. Bob Dylan plays the guitar and Johnny Starbucks Employee washes the cups.

I've said I would work for Starbucks if I needed the money and it seems sort of hypocritical for me to say Bob Dylan shouldn't be allowed to do the same.

"Come On" isn't such a comprehensive response. I'm genuinely interested in the reasons why these two things are different because if someone asked me for a reason why it was different, I wouldn't know what to tell them. Tell me now so when I have this discussion on three other message boards, I know what to say.

This isn't aimed at just Skronk, if anyone can explain the difference to me, I'd be very grateful. I'm not being trite or ironic, I really want to know for educational purposes.

tommydski wrote:I'm genuinely interested in the reasons why these two things are different because if someone asked me for a reason why it was different, I wouldn't know what to tell them. Tell me now so when I have this discussion on three other message boards, I know what to say.

steve wrote:

unarmedman wrote:So what can bands do? What are non-douche money makers, so startup bands and bands like Sonic Youth?

Normal shit like having a job, playing gigs and selling records. Normal shit that doesn't involve throwing your lot in with a bunch of douchebags you probably hate anyway.

steve wrote:This is a phony proposition. You assume we have a problem with Sonic Youth making money.

JUTTA: Why did the band start its own label?
THURSTON: It was created because we were recording a lot of music. We figured we were going to record a lot more than can fit on an album. And the way we make albums - the way most people make albums - is they're thematic in nature. So we didn't want to just flood the album with music. But the SYR releases and the purported Geffen record sort of inform each other. We don't really have a distinction between the two.
KIM: We do, in a way. I mean, there are some things that are set aside ...
THURSTON: We have a song called "Hits of Sunshine." That will definitely be on the Geffen record. We decided that. In fact, maybe we should call the album Hits of Sunshine.
KIM: No.
THURSTON: I'm telling you, man, if we're going to go on tour with Phish ...
KIM: It's too flower hippies.
THURSTON: But you have to buy into flower hippies because flower hippies are the only way we're going to make money in the future.
JUTTA: Oh, good.
THURSTON: Because Phish sell millions. We sell hundreds. We have to sell millions.
JUTTA: Phish?
KIM: Do they sell millions? I think they have lots of people coming to their concerts.
THURSTON: No, they sell millions. They've usurped the Grateful Dead's audience, which is the audience that we should have usurped, but we weren't as clever as them.
KIM: So this is all about making money?
THURSTON: This is all about making money.
JUTTA: Oh, I see. Is that a driving force?
THURSTON: Money? Not creatively. But it's a driving force for ambitions. I want to tour with Phish because the kind of music we make is more in tune with their aesthetic than it is with any K-Rock or Geffen rock aesthetic. So it's only fair to us, and to that audience. We deserve each other. And I think we can expand their horizon, although they can do nothing for us.

JUTTA: And what about the Ecstatic Peace label?
THURSTON: It's exciting but it's a drag because, again, that's why we have to make more money. It's draining our bank account. I mean, it's fun but it's expensive. Money doesn't really come back very readily from putting records out. So you know what I would like to do - and I think I'm going to do this - is appeal to the people at Microsoft to give me a label.
JUTTA: Why would they have a label?
THURSTON: Because I think Microsoft is looking to go into the entertainment business.
KIM: They're going to start putting music out.
THURSTON: They already have a label called Gold Circle. So I'm going to try to get into the Microsoft camp.
KIM: I think we can get Microsoft as a sponsor of SYR.
THURSTON: I mean, they're just swimming in green.
JUTTA: That's a good title for an album. There's so much concern there - Swimming in Green.
KIM: You know the time you saw us play in Rita's bedroom? I liked that because afterwards I could lay down on the bed and listen to other people playing, which is always my fantasy. Most gigs, you just feel like lying down and listening to the music.
JUTTA: You mean, when you're standing on stage you're ...
KIM: No, when I go to other people's shows.
THURSTON: I agree. It would be nice to lie down while they're playing.
JUTTA: It rarely happens.
THURSTON: Yeah, comfort clubs - that's a great idea for Microsoft to back.

Big John wrote:Is the woman from dawson's creek with the short blonde hair, the one that was in brokeback mountain? She is shooting a movie in front of my house with the guy who played capote and the gal who played his kill a mockingbird sidekick. It is being directed by the guy who wrote being john malkavitch and spotless mind. Pretty deconstructed set (scaffolding everywhere with scrims and outlines on them) maybe they are doing a lot of cg. it is called Phycodoche or something like that. If I am out later and she is sitting on my stairs again I will ask her.