In summary. There’s an Electoral College. Three States that would have got Harris over the 270 line had 250k votes in it so if half of those swung to Harris Trump loses.

FPP is a joke.

Curry Pervert wrote: I probably won't be responding to you on this issue any further.

Well, you can't say we never agreed on anything!

Cool w/me (your feeb attempt at "fascist" baiting notwithstanding). Santé!

zorg wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 12:14 pm

Krev wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 8:21 pm Putin just wanted to de-Nazify Ukraine just like the Civil War was about states' rights. He isn't trying to steal its land and resources to form a new Russian Empire. And Catherine the Great was fucked by a horse.

RE: Nazis. Listen, if you don't like Nazi's, you know who REALLY doesn't like Nazis? Russians. The rest of us like to throw that word around casually to describe Trump or whoever we don't like, or even to broadly describe a ruthless ideology or approach, but they had like millions of people killed by Germans in WWII, so that really resonates. It's solid rabblerousing slander. I'm sure the Azov brigade or whoever also had that in mind when they're mucking about with their civil war and wanting to scare Russians....and now that they want to legitimize their organization, that association becomes a liability. Anyway the whole thing is a bit of fluff all around.

Right. Putin keeps shouting "Nazi, Nazi!" b/c he knows precisely the emotions it will stir. His administration has used both "gay Nazis" (is Ukraine a porn film?) and even "Nazi Jews" (!!) as an excuse for what he's doing in Ukraine. They must be stopped at all costs! Can't say he doesn't know his audience. "Nazi," "gay," and "NATO" (replacing "decadent," perhaps?) seem to be the three things that make Russian populists see red (pun intended).

Trump does a milder, less articulate version of same when he tries to tie Harris or mainstream liberals to "communism." Any sensible person would chuckle and say, "No, what the fuck, she's a former DA who digs corporate interests and her gun." But Trump's audience (and a slew of swing voters) aren't big on sense. And the optics (yikes! immigrants and black people! some of them have committed crimes) aren't super different (yikes! Ukrainians! some of them have historically been Nazis). As if that somehow defines any of these groups or is an excuse to "other" them. Never mind invade and kill them.

It's stupid bullshit that plays on the audience's worst fears.

Russia, since the at least the '90s (some scholars say 1980s), has a robust and open pro-Putin neo-Nazi movement (seemingly at odds w/all that WWII pride). There's a well-documented history of this shit, and it's not just in fringe punk-rock skinhead circles (although that's big over there, as well). You can find plenty of news reports on brigades of them coming over the border and fighting for Putin in Ukraine. I'm sure they adore Ukraine's Jewish president.

"Solid rabblerousing slander," indeed! Totally agree.

Well at least there's no more political ads. I hate political ads.

I need time off from the "us vs them" of the past year.

Gramsci wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:13 am In summary. There’s an Electoral College. Three States that would have got Harris over the 270 line had 250k votes in it so if half of those swung to Harris Trump loses.

FPP is a joke.

Thanks, I don't know if more voting, would have solved our problems. Just before this election, in this very thread, several were convinced that what would solve things is the popular vote taking precedent over the electoral college, but as it turns out it's all just sour grapes. It might be time to grapple with whatever made Trump a popular choice....pretty much universally.

Gramsci wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:13 am In summary. There’s an Electoral College. Three States that would have got Harris over the 270 line had 250k votes in it so if half of those swung to Harris Trump loses.

FPP is a joke.

he improved basically everywhere and will win the popular vote

democrats got their asses kicked anyway you look at it

Nothing is going to change unless they face consequences. I am fucking *begging* people to take this as seriously as when Nazis took power in Germany. Me and my loved ones have been experiencing an extreme uptick in death and rape threats. We are facing backpedaling in the Democrat party against us, we need people to stand up and actually defend us and for them to choose standing with trans people over living in a society where we are eradicated. Everyone’s fucking arguing about how the dems lost and blah blah blah and who fucking cares??? You need to deal with the reality we are facing NOW. Only ONE thing has historically been able to defeat a fascist government, and it wasn’t voting or incremental reform within a fascist government. And if you truly think that we’re just totally fucked, which also given climate change is a real possibility, please, please, PLEASE consider not bringing more people into this world. If they are queer or disabled or have particular reproductive organs you are signing them up for a lifetime filled with hell and control by white supremacist patriarchs, and if not, you are signing them up for a life as a cog in this machine that tortures anyone who isn’t.

eephus wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:25 am

Gramsci wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:13 am In summary. There’s an Electoral College. Three States that would have got Harris over the 270 line had 250k votes in it so if half of those swung to Harris Trump loses.

FPP is a joke.

he improved basically everywhere and will win the popular vote

democrats got their asses kicked anyway you look at it

Pretty clear at this point that propaganda works, while Americans in general don't really pay attention to details, like the effects of tariffs and mass deporations. Dems lost because Harris basically said she wouldn't change anything. a lot of people, despite the "great" economy, still can't make basic ends meet, it's still difficult to start a family or own a house. The wealth gap is too wide. People literally want to smash the system. Harris got less votes than Biden. Trump won the electoral college and the popular vote, with less votes overall. That doesn't mean the country is going more right wing, it means that the economic message of "Lets keep things the same" does not resonate, when the people you need to vote for you sit it out and undecideds vote on the price of eggs and gasoline. Trump says a bunch of crazy big ideas and wins, because despite the crazy ideas, people literally are struggling. Democrats can't win on small, incremental changes. And frankly, the small, incremental changes haven't changed anyone's economic position that aren't wealthy.

So, the only optimism to find here is that when things get worse--and they will, because they did last time--then the only people to blame will be those in charge. At least that has historically been the trend in politics, and it certainly ended Trump's first term.

Having been here (checks date)…. Twenty years… we're having the same conversation about the Dems we had in 2016+. They honestly seem completely incapable of pivoting to any kind of “Progressive Populism” a la Bernie. He even gave them two chances and the DNC ratfucked him.

On the results. The system is what it is. The popular vote is meaningless. The FPP Electoral College is all. It’s the same logic as the UK’s “Loveless Landslide” to Labour. No, it was just a landslide because voter turnout, percentages etc aren’t how the system works. You win by getting one more vote in the right place than your opponent, then take all.

In the end, even after dismissing Gaza as an issue, that could have been the Dem suppression that tipped it. We’ll need to see the data. If so, a bunch of people withheld their vote for Harris to elect someone that Bibi immediately gave a reach around on Twitter.

Nose
Face
Spite.

cakes wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:41 am So, the only optimism to find here is that when things get worse--and they will, because they did last time--then the only people to blame will be those in charge. At least that has historically been the trend in politics, and it certainly ended Trump's first term.

Someone talk me off a ledge and tell me what's stopping them, with their slim Senate majority, from ending the filibuster, or packing the courts? They aren't actually concerned with upholding constitutional or legal norms, they're interested in permanent minority rule. It's hard having any faith in "this means we will be able to get them next time!" talk.

cakes wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:41 am Democrats can't win on small, incremental changes. And frankly, the small, incremental changes haven't changed anyone's economic position that aren't wealthy.

I'm no economist, but also isn't GDP a woefully outdated means of evaluating anything when the wealth gap is staggering and only getting worse?