Couple of things. I'm a Leeds fan, so permit me to resort to stereotype:

sphincter wrote:He's a canny manager who's made a few good buys(recently)- Rooney and Ronaldo etc and encouraged the academy to bring up some great players. May I add that Ronaldo has become ten times better since he joined United, they've transformed him from a show-boating tit to one of the best players on the planet. Look at the squad- a lot of them weren't big names at all when they joined United, Scholes and Giggs got their names at United, players like O'Shea, Richardson and Fletcher aren't big names.

Ferguson has also bought absolute garbage. Djemba-Djemba turned up at Elland Road on Saturday, playing for Burnley. How much did he cost? And one has to point at Ferguson's total failure to replace Schmeical. Four keepers in one season, at one point - poor. Having to get Larsson in this season because he hasn't signed a striker - poor. Rooney and Ronaldo weren't exactly the bargain discoveries of the age - signing Rooney was entirely down to producing an obscene amount of money and offering it to an impoverished team.

Their youth output is a credit, of course (though the Scholes/Beckham/Neville/Robbie Savage team was beaten by Leeds in 1993's Youth Cup Final), but that product has always been augmented by huge signings. The current crop you mention - O'Shea, Richardson, Fletcher, and I'll throw in the laughable Wes Brown - are very average. Take Ronaldo and Rooney out of that team, and you've got journeymen. They're enjoy enhanced reputations because they play in Stretford and they've got quality around them.

I disagree about Ferguson, I don't think he's too bad of a moaner. If you compare him to the rest. They all moan too much. Anyway you could be right, you may have seen more interview footage with him than me.

The tit hasn't even spoken to the B fucking B fucking C for about ten years, over some story they ran. You want a petty whinge? Sending your assistant manager out to the BBC every week is a long-running, never-ending, highly petty whinge.

I can't see the current top four's rule as a good thing. I'm enjoying Mourinho's time at Chelsea for the off pitch flavour, but I don't see how their grinding out a 1-0 win every week without fail is good for the game. Sure, West Ham beat Stretford Satans and it can alway happen - as Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink said, "The ball is round, and it can do many strange things". But it's hardly been the theme of the season. Trafford Rangers have sauntered off with the Premiership lead, Chelsea have followed them with a string of one-nils, Liverpool have kept close with yet another squad of players I've never heard of plus Gerrard and Carragher (when's the next youth player coming from Liverpool?), and Arsenal, although lousy this season, are still going to finish fourth. Arsenal being a fucking joke and still qualifying for the Champions League is not good for English football.

The first FA Cup semi-final was desperate. Watford being dismantled in a half-empty stadium? I didn't bother with the second half.

Sure, some teams - Portsmouth, Reading - have shown signs of life this season, but that hasn't altered the top four. And although teams may well show again next year, I doubt it'll be Portsmouth and Reading again. Two other plucky outsiders will bravely scrap their way into the UEFA Cup, their manager will be grabbed to fuck England up even more and Chelsea, Stretford, Liverpool and Arsenal will finish in the top four.

Alright, I'm going to an extreme angle just for the hell of it. These upcoming Chelsea v Sale FC games should be a chuckle, but normally as Leeds go from farce to fiasco I can look around the rest of the leagues for entertainment. There's been bugger all this season. I can't pretend I like the idea of the Champions League semi-finals being 3/4 English every season from now on (can't say I like the idea of the Champions League at all, really...). If nothing else, I don't like it because this country is very quick to assume an attitude of unbearable smugness at the first whiff of minor success, and I can't take too much of that.

Ah, I'm probably just bitter. I think that with the amount of money that football is swimming in at the top, I find it hard to decide that the assertion of that wealth in the form of the three wealthiest teams going a long way in Europe is a good thing. It's like hearing about a millionaire winning the lottery, y'know?

Oh, and Newcastle will challenge next season?! Are they shooting Titus Bramble in the summer, like?

Sly Bug: hard luck to Garibaldi, but at least (I hope) there wasn't a riot this time.

Leeds United: thanks for the hope, but you're not fooling me you bastards.

daniel robert chapman wrote:Couple of things. I'm a Leeds fan, so permit me to resort to stereotype:

sphincter wrote:He's a canny manager who's made a few good buys(recently)- Rooney and Ronaldo etc and encouraged the academy to bring up some great players. May I add that Ronaldo has become ten times better since he joined United, they've transformed him from a show-boating tit to one of the best players on the planet. Look at the squad- a lot of them weren't big names at all when they joined United, Scholes and Giggs got their names at United, players like O'Shea, Richardson and Fletcher aren't big names.

Ferguson has also bought absolute garbage. Djemba-Djemba turned up at Elland Road on Saturday, playing for Burnley. How much did he cost? And one has to point at Ferguson's total failure to replace Schmeical. Four keepers in one season, at one point - poor. Having to get Larsson in this season because he hasn't signed a striker - poor. Rooney and Ronaldo weren't exactly the bargain discoveries of the age - signing Rooney was entirely down to producing an obscene amount of money and offering it to an impoverished team.

Their youth output is a credit, of course (though the Scholes/Beckham/Neville/Robbie Savage team was beaten by Leeds in 1993's Youth Cup Final), but that product has always been augmented by huge signings. The current crop you mention - O'Shea, Richardson, Fletcher, and I'll throw in the laughable Wes Brown - are very average. Take Ronaldo and Rooney out of that team, and you've got journeymen. They're enjoy enhanced reputations because they play in Stretford and they've got quality around them.

I disagree about Ferguson, I don't think he's too bad of a moaner. If you compare him to the rest. They all moan too much. Anyway you could be right, you may have seen more interview footage with him than me.

The tit hasn't even spoken to the B fucking B fucking C for about ten years, over some story they ran. You want a petty whinge? Sending your assistant manager out to the BBC every week is a long-running, never-ending, highly petty whinge.

I can't see the current top four's rule as a good thing. I'm enjoying Mourinho's time at Chelsea for the off pitch flavour, but I don't see how their grinding out a 1-0 win every week without fail is good for the game. Sure, West Ham beat Stretford Satans and it can alway happen - as Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink said, "The ball is round, and it can do many strange things". But it's hardly been the theme of the season. Trafford Rangers have sauntered off with the Premiership lead, Chelsea have followed them with a string of one-nils, Liverpool have kept close with yet another squad of players I've never heard of plus Gerrard and Carragher (when's the next youth player coming from Liverpool?), and Arsenal, although lousy this season, are still going to finish fourth. Arsenal being a fucking joke and still qualifying for the Champions League is not good for English football.

The first FA Cup semi-final was desperate. Watford being dismantled in a half-empty stadium? I didn't bother with the second half.

Sure, some teams - Portsmouth, Reading - have shown signs of life this season, but that hasn't altered the top four. And although teams may well show again next year, I doubt it'll be Portsmouth and Reading again. Two other plucky outsiders will bravely scrap their way into the UEFA Cup, their manager will be grabbed to fuck England up even more and Chelsea, Stretford, Liverpool and Arsenal will finish in the top four.

Alright, I'm going to an extreme angle just for the hell of it. These upcoming Chelsea v Sale FC games should be a chuckle, but normally as Leeds go from farce to fiasco I can look around the rest of the leagues for entertainment. There's been bugger all this season. I can't pretend I like the idea of the Champions League semi-finals being 3/4 English every season from now on (can't say I like the idea of the Champions League at all, really...). If nothing else, I don't like it because this country is very quick to assume an attitude of unbearable smugness at the first whiff of minor success, and I can't take too much of that.

Ah, I'm probably just bitter. I think that with the amount of money that football is swimming in at the top, I find it hard to decide that the assertion of that wealth in the form of the three wealthiest teams going a long way in Europe is a good thing. It's like hearing about a millionaire winning the lottery, y'know?

Oh, and Newcastle will challenge next season?! Are they shooting Titus Bramble in the summer, like?

Sly Bug: hard luck to Garibaldi, but at least (I hope) there wasn't a riot this time.

Leeds United: thanks for the hope, but you're not fooling me you bastards.

Yeah, I agree Ferguson has made mistakes, I said he was the best, not perfect. But also remember that sometimes great players don't settle into teams. Schevcenko (sp?) for instance. Everyone may be calling him shit but he's proven he's not, he's been a dominant figure in Europe for a good few years, great at his old club, but he hasn't really settled in well at Chelsea, especially in the first half of the season- he was terrible. Perhaps it's the pace of English football that's offset him, who knows, but it seems like he's starting to get to grips with it a bit now but is by no-means looking like the best striker around at the moment. Tevez, best player of the year in Argentinian and Brazilian leagues I believe, he's obviously quality, he looked good in the world cup too, playing in arguably the best team on the planet, but he hasn't been a complete revelation in England. I know he's been in a struggling team, and he hasn't been shit, some quality moments of course, but he's yet to show off something amazing.

Schmeical (sp?) is probably the best goal keeping talent I've ever seen, replacing him is a pretty hardcore job, but I agree, Man United had a line of sub-par goal keepers, an issue that's a hard one to fix which they sort of have at the moment.

How much did United pay for Rooney? I've wanted to know for a while what situation Everton were in financially when they sold him, I assumed they probably needed to.

I agree, the current youth crop is nothing compared to the past one of which you mention. I think O'Shea is quite solid, no flare or anything special but he can be relied upon to play a reasonably steady game. Sometimes when watching Fletcher I want to cry that he plays for Man United, but then he'll shock you by working hard and he play brilliantly, chasing down balls, hasseling oppostion and making great positive-play passes. Wes Brown seems to be getting better too...ha.

I thought he didn't talk to the BBC because they ripped on his son? If so I almost respect him for being a stubborn bastard.

Reading through your post I've come to a conclusion; you hate football. You should check out a different sport. There's no money in womens football. I understand your point and I agree to a certain degree, I support a small team who'd never have a chance in hell in competing against the big teams week in week out, but I do enjoy watching good footballers play football. I'm no Chelsea fan but I'd be so happy if Ronaldinho (sp?) signed to them because I'd get to watch him play football every week unless they kept him on the bench too... I guess I have a slightly perverse view on football.

I'm not being smug about English teams doing well in Europe, I'm enjoying it and why not? If Leeds were in the Champions league right now I guarentee you'd be loving it! You also wouldn't mind if some money fell into their laps either I'm sure.

Oh my newcastle comment was mainly about injured players coming back.

You seem to know more than me, but I believe Everton can keep finishing in the top 8, portsmouth can keep playing the way they are; on and off, possibly top 8, Newcastle might challenge! Bolton and Tottenham will also be top 8 consistently I think. Not that what I'm saying really means anything as the top four are still the top four.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Reading cope with their second season in the premiership and I'm also living on a prayer that Charlton will stay up. Fuck me I love the premiership!

Dudley wrote:Damn your reasoned sensible responses, sir! Damn 'em all to hell!

The only possible quibble would be about the quality of the current England side. We have no players playing abroad (bar Hargreaves), no managers either (and precious few at home), very few players who would realistically make the team week in week out for non-English sides, and we seem to contiinue to be hamstrung by this Lampard/Gerrard problem, because we lack talented versatile midfielders. We've got loads of potential, but either they don't get games for their sides, or they're hoofing around route-one balls in clumsy relegation battle

We've got enough good players to be a better side than we are at least. I think the Gerrard/Lampard situation is a problem of sorts but if they both played at Liverpool or Chelsea I bet they'd be fine, meaning that really they could both easily play together, but neither of them, especially Lampard seem to perform too well for England. Perhaps the pressure is so insanely heavy that it does get to them? No-one seems to play that well for England really and there are plenty of big names there.

I think if Owen and Rooney had been given enough time to play together they could have formed a pretty solid striking partnership, but we'll probably never know now.

I reckon that Robinson, Terry, Ferdinand, Neville, Woodgate, Carragher, Ashley Cole, Joe Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick, Hargreaves, Rooney and Owen could all play for non-English teams week in week out.

sphincter wrote:Reading through your post I've come to a conclusion; you hate football.

Well, I support Leeds United. There's a great joke in 'Rising Damp', where Rigsby is defending the local Tory councillor: "Blood sports? I don't think he likes blood sports. I mean, he watches Leeds United, but..."

I don't hate the beautiful game, if that's what you mean. My favourite player of all time is Johan Cruyff. That's football as poetry, right there.

'Modern' football? It's a love/hate thing. I find it hard to celebrate anything about the modern game, played as it is by bubble-dwelling millionaire dilletantes. What I feel I'm being asked to celebrate about the Dirty Reds, Liverpool and Chelsea this season is the success of the very rich teams over the other very rich teams. I suppose it was ever thus but it's only recently that the sums involved have become so astounding.

Now, I'm not totally numb, and I'm not immune to the great football that is played. Some of the Evil Empire's play against Roma was great. I love watching Ronaldinho compilations and so on on YouTube, and would enjoy watching him on Match of the Day (oh, and read this for a chuckle) . I'm excited by the prospect of the current Arsenal side growing up a little and maybe adding a goalscorer. I've seen some good stuff from Tottenham, Berbatov is amazing.

But there's an unreality to it, at the moment. I don't know what it is, really. Perhaps it's my age. Perhaps it's something about rich fuckwits behaving like pricks. Perhaps it's Leeds United being so far removed from it these days.

If Leeds were in the Champions league right now I guarentee you'd be loving it! You also wouldn't mind if some money fell into their laps either I'm sure.

You know something? I can honestly say you're wrong. Once bitten, twice shy, and all that. I don't think anything would terrify me more in football than Leeds United suddenly being rich again. Back in the Champions League? Too soon, man, too soon. I loved the season of it I watched at Elland Road but I think it was a unique time for LUFC - even if we got back there, it wouldn't involve someone like Jacob Burns scrapping in midfield against Real Madrid again.

As for Newcastle, I was kidding around really. I don't see them challenging, though - Glen Roeder will probably spend the summer talking about signing defenders and then start next season with the same old rubbish; then they'll lean on Michael Owen until he gets crocked again. I've nowt against Newcastle but there seems to be something very wrong with them as a club these days. It's hard to know what Everton are going to do, they're safe but not really going anywhere - I think Moyes needs to shake them up a bit otherwise it could all go stale over there.

Who do you support, sphincter? I think I've missed it if you said already.

Also, where were you born?

daniel robert chapman wrote:Sly Bug: hard luck to Garibaldi, but at least (I hope) there wasn't a riot this time.

Thanks. No, there wasn't a riot this time.

Rare enough to be mentionned, the staff and players of OS Monaco kindly offered to start the game 1 - 0 for Garibaldi FC (it was the score when the fist match was interrupted). Of course, we refused but we really appreciated their "fair play".

daniel robert chapman wrote:

sphincter wrote:Reading through your post I've come to a conclusion; you hate football.

Well, I support Leeds United. There's a great joke in 'Rising Damp', where Rigsby is defending the local Tory councillor: "Blood sports? I don't think he likes blood sports. I mean, he watches Leeds United, but..."

I don't hate the beautiful game, if that's what you mean. My favourite player of all time is Johan Cruyff. That's football as poetry, right there.

'Modern' football? It's a love/hate thing. I find it hard to celebrate anything about the modern game, played as it is by bubble-dwelling millionaire dilletantes. What I feel I'm being asked to celebrate about the Dirty Reds, Liverpool and Chelsea this season is the success of the very rich teams over the other very rich teams. I suppose it was ever thus but it's only recently that the sums involved have become so astounding.

Now, I'm not totally numb, and I'm not immune to the great football that is played. Some of the Evil Empire's play against Roma was great. I love watching Ronaldinho compilations and so on on YouTube, and would enjoy watching him on Match of the Day (oh, and read this for a chuckle) . I'm excited by the prospect of the current Arsenal side growing up a little and maybe adding a goalscorer. I've seen some good stuff from Tottenham, Berbatov is amazing.

But there's an unreality to it, at the moment. I don't know what it is, really. Perhaps it's my age. Perhaps it's something about rich fuckwits behaving like pricks. Perhaps it's Leeds United being so far removed from it these days.

If Leeds were in the Champions league right now I guarentee you'd be loving it! You also wouldn't mind if some money fell into their laps either I'm sure.

You know something? I can honestly say you're wrong. Once bitten, twice shy, and all that. I don't think anything would terrify me more in football than Leeds United suddenly being rich again. Back in the Champions League? Too soon, man, too soon. I loved the season of it I watched at Elland Road but I think it was a unique time for LUFC - even if we got back there, it wouldn't involve someone like Jacob Burns scrapping in midfield against Real Madrid again.

As for Newcastle, I was kidding around really. I don't see them challenging, though - Glen Roeder will probably spend the summer talking about signing defenders and then start next season with the same old rubbish; then they'll lean on Michael Owen until he gets crocked again. I've nowt against Newcastle but there seems to be something very wrong with them as a club these days. It's hard to know what Everton are going to do, they're safe but not really going anywhere - I think Moyes needs to shake them up a bit otherwise it could all go stale over there.

Who do you support, sphincter? I think I've missed it if you said already.

Yeah well, when I fall flat on the point I also feel a bit weird watching a bunch of over-paid millionaires who fall over and do platoon impressions every time someone comes near them, whilst basically doing what they love week in week out then complaining about it. But however much they get paid and whatever they're worth, it's still 11 men playing 11 men, nothing is set. Middlesbrough managed to make the final of UEFA with never really playing well once! Anythings possible.

That link is slightly surreal now isn't it.

Well I sort of support Plymouth, or have done since I was young. In a weird way I root for Liverpool too when it comes to the premier league, my son is a little scouser, he's a fan, my wife is a scouse spouse...sorry, that joke? is unforgivable, I'm still going to post it though.

tommydski wrote:Also, where were you born?

Plymouth. Are you building a profile? Who do you work for?

Just teasing.

The common reaction is "Manchester United" and then "Kent".