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Nico Adie wrote:I have no problem with the English, just the English media.

They are cunts. And I'm sure most reasonable English folks think the same.

Hey! Will you run on that platform? I don't need to know anything else...

Chapter Two wrote: The English are fuckers and you know it. And they know it more than you. And the Welsh fucking hate us too. And so they should.

Chapter Two, from reading your posts, you've always struck me as a pretty thoughtful and fair bloke. Whereas I, on the other hand, I'm just a fucker. And implicitly a rapist and a murderer. Crucially, to your argument, I come from a "race" of rapists and murderers.

I'd be fascinated to hear some more of your racial generalisations. Presumably by the same criteria, all Germans, Austrians, Italians, Spaniards and Portugese are simply fascist fuckers. The French and the Dutch, major colonial powers, and inflicted the same sort of misery as the the English/British. Shit, mate, your "acceptable race" map of Europe must be pretty small.

Anyone who wants to hate/make sweeping generalisations about someone for their passport, where their parents come from or the colour of their skin, well, good luck to 'em, but let's not dignify it by calling it anything other than racism. I'm sure every racist feels they have rock-solid justification as to why they're "allowed" to hate another group or nationality - I doubt they do it on an idle whim. But that logic just continually fragments society - if the X's can hate the so-and-so's for what happened then, then the Y's must be allowed to despise the Z's for what their ancestors did to them in the 18th century. - and you end up writing a charter for every little fucker who wants to push shit through people's letterboxes or round up the people from the next state/village/slum and line them up next to shallow graves because somehwere back in their bloodline...etc.

I'm not "proud" of my country or being British or whatever, and our colonial past was full of blood and exploitation, but if that makes it OK for someone to hate me, then fuck you and all who sail in you. I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think anyone else should be held responsible for their "race" or nationality or what their ancestors did, so why the fuck should I be?

Either we divide the world on racist lines or we don't. Either blood feuds are acceptable or they're not.

Chapter Two wrote:

Earwicker wrote:I do not live in Scotland (and in fact, when I have visited it seems to be full of Australians and upper class English)

I'd maybe consider visiting somewhere other than downtown Edinburgh, at some time other than Edinburgh festival time.

I've been going to the West coast of Scotland once or twice a year for about five years now. Fort William, Oban, Lochgilpead. I've walked across Skye and Lewis. I've been to a few places on the East side around Aberdeen and I once worked in Motherwell for a week - it was a shithole.
All these places had posh English types there and a suspicious number of Ozzies working in bars (except Motherwell and Lewis. I think I've met about two or three Scots on the West Coast everyone else has been either an Oz or a ra ra English type)
I've also been to Edinburgh many times, only once at the Festival and an unusual amount of Oz's work in the bars and shops all year round.

But you're right. maybe you should consider visiting somewhere other than downtown Edinburgh, at some time other than Edinburgh festival time.

I think you might feel differently if you were Scottish, to be honest.

Well, maybe some of the Scots on the board could help with that one. Are you sore at me and Chapter Two because a few generations ago someone who wasn't related to us at all did something bad to someone who, for all we know, may not have been related to you either?

Being aware of myself I don't think (to be honest) that I would feel differently as I don't have a personal problem with me (as an Englishman) cause of what the English did to some of my ancestors (I haven't taken my Englishness personally anyway). I also am not annoyed at present day Swedes for all the robbing they did in the 8th Century or Italians for Caeser.
Why would I be?
It was a long time ago!

I don't think the Scottish regard the present generation of English people the same as their ancestors did. I don't think they regard us as a people that they should prepare for war with. They just think we're wankers.

Well, again, I'd say the racist, ignorant ones think that. You're saying the perfectly reasonable ones think that.

Sorry for suggesting you had a class consciousness, Paul. I'll be more careful in future.

It's Earwicker bum boy.

Earwicker wrote:It's Earwicker's bum boy.

I say! Enough of the porno here!

Sorry.

Scotland: it's up to the people who live there, ultimately. I share some of Earwicker's bemusement at the vitriol showed towards the English during sporting events, but then, I find weird any vitriol shown during any sporting event. I can understand the historical antipathy.

C2's united ideal sounds grand. Why can't we all just get along?

Chapter Two wrote:I'm talking about why a prejudice can be understandable, not arguing that racism is a good thing. It isn't. I don't think that an old prejudice from historical events is necessarily the same thing as racism.

I think that modern racism is largely based on fear/ignorance, but the essence of even modern racism is a carryover of the natural reaction to an 'other', and must be overcome through knowledge and experience. The core of racism still comes from a part of our brains that we don't directly control, what I call a human's native operating system, our computer BIOS.

Put it this way. Imagine living 1500 years ago. Say you were a Norseman, and you had spent your entire life on a Scandinavian island that was only inhabitated by humans who resembled you physically. You had no awareness of African civilizations, or that there were humans who didn't resemble you and your family. ( I'm not saying that this hypothetical scenario is historically accurate- I'm just building a hypothetical that fits the point I'm trying to make. )

One day, you see a boat on the horizon approaching your island. As it nears shore, you make out the passengers; first case- it's a boat of men and women who are fair-skinned like you. Second case- it's a boat of men and women who are as black as ebony. Which boat do you think will ( initially ) threaten the surprised residents of the island more? Just based on looks alone, the boat with the black passengers. Despite absolutely zero empirical evidence to substantiate the reaction, the black passengers will create more apprehension among the islanders, just because of some brain chemistry inside us that equates 'different' with 'dangerous'.

I think that deep inside us, we must overcome a tendency to perceive those different from us as "guilty until proven innocent", and those like us as the opposite. Although most of us now have a great familiarity with multi-ethnic society, we still have ancient braincode that can make us react towards each other like primitive humans. We are still evolving as a species. It's like we are shedding our old skin like snakes, but each new version of human ( if seen on a timeline ) still carries vestiges of earlier stages of our evolution.

I think that's the first 'fuck you' I've had on this board. I guess it had to come some day.

Chapter Two wrote:I think that's the first 'fuck you' I've had on this board. I guess it had to come some day.

Hey, man, fuck you.

Oh, wait...

Chapter Two wrote:I think that's the first 'fuck you' I've had on this board. I guess it had to come some day.

If it helps, it was a conditional generalised "fuck you",

Dudley wrote:
I'm not "proud" of my country or being British or whatever, and our colonial past was full of blood and exploitation, but if that makes it OK for someone to hate me, then fuck you and all who sail in you. I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think anyone else should be held responsible for their "race" or nationality or what their ancestors did, so why the fuck should I be?

rather than one aimed specifically at you - it wasn't meant to be a personal one, in much the same way, you weren't calling me specifically a fucker/rapist/murderer (if you were, apologies for misrepresenting you). Generalisations, eh? Certainly get the blood flowing, don't they?

Apologies for any offence caused, C2. It was intended as heated debate, and if it slipped into prodding and name-calling, the fault is mine. It's my first time being called a "fucker" (and part of a "race"/nation of murderers and rapists) too! On here, I mean. In every day life, sadly, a far more common occurrence

Dudley wrote:

Chapter Two wrote:I think that's the first 'fuck you' I've had on this board. I guess it had to come some day.

If it helps, it was a conditional generalised "fuck you",

Dudley wrote:
I'm not "proud" of my country or being British or whatever, and our colonial past was full of blood and exploitation, but if that makes it OK for someone to hate me, then fuck you and all who sail in you. I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think anyone else should be held responsible for their "race" or nationality or what their ancestors did, so why the fuck should I be?

rather than one aimed specifically at you - it wasn't meant to be a personal one, in much the same way, you weren't calling me specifically a fucker/rapist/murderer (if you were, apologies for misrepresenting you). Generalisations, eh? Certainly get the blood flowing, don't they?

Apologies for any offence caused, C2. It was intended as heated debate, and if it slipped into prodding and name-calling, the fault is mine. It's my first time being called a "fucker" (and part of a "race"/nation of murderers and rapists) too! On here, I mean. In every day life, sadly, a far more common occurrence

Cheers Dudley. My apologies in return for any offence caused. Same goes to Earwicker.

Regards,
A polite fucker

Let's all jump on the puppy pile now and cuddle, you fucking racist bastards.