But how do you a get a fan base in a town you've never played before if you don't play for free the first time you go through ? Are you suggesting that only bands with distro deals and street teams should be aloud to tour? I say if you have a following and can get paid to play then go for it. If you want to finance your own tour as some sort of road trip/vacation and can pull it off thats cool too.

Bands can make myspace pages and shit, they don't need street teams anymore. People can do whatever they want, I don't give a shit, I just think it's part of what is fucking it up for everyone else doing independent music.

Kayte R. wrote:I seriously don't understand why bands on tour book shows and don't demand a guarantee that will at the very least cover their gas and food. If the bar can't provide it, don't book that show. Bands playing for free on tour just fills promoters' pockets and makes it harder for other bands to get a reasonable guarantee. If you have to cancel your tour because you're not getting paid enough at each show you need to ask for more and have the draw to be able to ask for it. I think the amatuer bands that do this shit fuck things up for bands trying to do it for real. </angry>

most clubs will not give an unknown/little known band any type of guarantee and why would they. lets say you draw 2 people and the club guaranteed you $300. they are loosing money. if you have some name recognition and are on a decent indie label or have played the club previously and draw well they will be far more inclined to guarantee you something.

i think the reason that bands will play for no/very small guarantees is because they like playing. i know that this is why we do it. it would be nice to have $500 guarantees every show but in most places we play outside of our hometown we don't draw the kind of crowd to justify it.

elisha wiesner wrote:

Kayte R. wrote:I seriously don't understand why bands on tour book shows and don't demand a guarantee that will at the very least cover their gas and food. If the bar can't provide it, don't book that show. Bands playing for free on tour just fills promoters' pockets and makes it harder for other bands to get a reasonable guarantee. If you have to cancel your tour because you're not getting paid enough at each show you need to ask for more and have the draw to be able to ask for it. I think the amatuer bands that do this shit fuck things up for bands trying to do it for real. </angry>

most clubs will not give an unknown/little known band any type of guarantee and why would they. lets say you draw 2 people and the club guaranteed you $300. they are loosing money. if you have some name recognition and are on a decent indie label or have played the club previously and draw well they will be far more inclined to guarantee you something.

i think the reason that bands will play for no/very small guarantees is because they like playing. i know that this is why we do it. it would be nice to have $500 guarantees every show but in most places we play outside of our hometown we don't draw the kind of crowd to justify it.

yep. not everyone can get a guarantee or even deserve it. a lot of the time no promotion amount in the world can draw a crowd to a band no one's heard of, and really the bar/venue/promoter is doing them the favor for giving them the opportunity to play in the first place (and maybe gain a couple of fans out of bar regulars).

then there are those times when no name touring band lucks out by getting on on a bill w/ a good band, but good band's guarantee is such that you really don't make any money. is that a problem? i don't think so, because you just got paid in exposure/local name recognition.

being in a band is a thankless job, and that's how it should stay.

kenoki wrote:yep. not everyone can get a guarantee or even deserve it.

+1

busbus wrote:

kenoki wrote:yep. not everyone can get a guarantee or even deserve it.

+1

+2

Whatever--we're going on tour with our pals White Wrench Conservatory in the fall, and we are going to lose our ass. Two bands on tour together with $4/gallon gas? We may as well stay home and light a pile of money on fire.

But! It's gonna be a hell of a lot of fun, and we're going to visit and hang out with a ton of our friends in bands from all over the eastern US. And maybe sell a CD here and there, too. Maybe.

there is no underground anymore

Look, sorry if this makes me sound like your dad or something. But I think there's more to life - even our young lives in our 20s and 30s - than devoting most of our energies to playing music we like. If you were hit by a bus tomorrow, would you really think that your rock band is the legacy your life warrants? The world is a fucked up, unjust place but there are things you can do to change it. There other people your age who are doing things that are more meaningful and important than scraping by on shitty jobs so that they can indulge a desire to create music.

Music is wonderful. Keep in perspective with the rest of your life, give it the attention it deserves and you won't have any expectation that it should give you money. And hopefully you'll be contributing your other talents, relationships and insights to fight for a better tomorrow for those less fortunate than you are.

= Justin

Justin from Queens wrote:Look, sorry if this makes me sound like your dad or something. But I think there's more to life - even our young lives in our 20s and 30s - than devoting most of our energies to playing music we like. If you were hit by a bus tomorrow, would you really think that your rock band is the legacy your life warrants? The world is a fucked up, unjust place but there are things you can do to change it. There other people your age who are doing things that are more meaningful and important than scraping by on shitty jobs so that they can indulge a desire to create music.

Music is wonderful. Keep in perspective with the rest of your life, give it the attention it deserves and you won't have any expectation that it should give you money. And hopefully you'll be contributing your other talents, relationships and insights to fight for a better tomorrow for those less fortunate than you are.

= Justin

If this is directed toward me then I started this thread 4 years ago when I was a lot more naive. This board eventually chewed up all my dreams and now I illegally smuggle starbucks and mcdonalds into schools for republican children.

turnbullac wrote:there is no underground anymore

I strongly disagree with this. Were the statement "there is no national underground anymore" then I would agree. It seems these days the underground exists on a very localized level. For whatever reason plenty of bands are content to play their music solely in their own town. They don't put out more than a few 7"s or an LP over the course of a number of years, but their existence is vibrant and thoughtful. Of course no one outside of their community is going to be aware of their effort, nor, due to their lack of travel, will they have they opportunity to ideoogically coalesce with other bands throughout the country. What we have these days is an island underground. There are plenty of bands that post on this board that I enjoy and will most likely never get to see live but I would consider underground. Were it not for this forum would unfortunately never have been made aware of their existence. Anyway, as usual I really don't know where I am going with this and I have to go to a meeting on diamond cold cathode electron sources so I will try to finish this thought later.

Jon