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Ace wrote:

Ishmael wrote:
I'm saying that Herzog's subjects are just as important to his films as he is. Herzog's documentary 'Little Deiter Needs To Fly' might be his best film, and no one is "acting" in that movie. Herzog's directoral choices are complementary to his subject matter, and his films would be lacking if they weren't.
Could you imagine 'Aguirre' without Klaus Kinski? Probably not.

In contrast, a filmmaker like Fassbinder, or Wenders, could probably use any performer or subject and make a great film (perhaps not AS good as the ones they did choose, but I honestly don't think it would have made that much of a difference).

I'm not entirely sure about this. Herzog has said himself that his documentaries should really be in inverted commas. The Minnesota Decleration, Ecstatic Truth and all that. While you could say that 'no-one is acting', the audience's perception of reality is manipulated and blurred. It's there in a lot of his films, made up quotations and such like. He invents his subjects, and refigures them in a profound way.

I don't know much about Wenders, and nothing about Fassbinder, but to accuse Herzog of relying on things outside of his skill as a director doesn't really hold much weight. Of course Kinski is instrumental to Aguirre and Fitzcarraldo, but to a certain extent it was Herzog's direction and control that shaped those performances.

Anyway. About as Not Crap as you can get. I haven't seen all of his films, but each and every one from the boxsets is fascinating and moving in its own way. Added to this is the appeal of the Herzog-myth. I know he's not crazy, and he didn't direct Kinski by waving a gun at him, but he did walk the border of Berlin and drag a fucking ship over a mountain. He's a remarkable man.

I'm going to watch Heart of Glass again later.

houseboat wrote:I'm not entirely sure about this. Herzog has said himself that his documentaries should really be in inverted commas. The Minnesota Decleration, Ecstatic Truth and all that. While you could say that 'no-one is acting', the audience's perception of reality is manipulated and blurred. It's there in a lot of his films, made up quotations and such like. He invents his subjects, and refigures them in a profound way.

that's acting. they may be "playing themselves" in character but what they say and what they do and how they "feel" many times is what herzog decides he wants, not what actually was said, done or felt. they are real people acting falsities as themselves. herzog can call it whatever he wants but it's lies when he does this. if a lie is an ecstatic truth, then so be it.

profound? possibly. entertaining? definitely.

Saw "White Diamond" this week, it was amazing, like the story of one of the characters in a Shellac song.

It's the (true) story of a guy who wants to fly, so designs and builds an airship. His obsession costs him all his time and money, his best friend and two of his fingers. It's role will to be to float above the Jungle canopy looking for things that can be used as medicine, but really he just wants to float.

The motors for the ship are built by a self taught engineer with no formal training, no knowledge of maths but has created a new form of algebra that no-one else can understand. The motors apparently work better than any previously designed motor.

There is also a secret cave behind the waterfall where millions of swifts live, but no human has ever seen...until Herzog's man climbs down there...

Can we list our favourite scenes from Herzog films? I'm still a newbie but already have at least 20 so I bet the rest of you have hundreds.


-Aguirre talking to the monkey and then tossing it back on the pile.
-Woyzek being lifted up by his belt by his wife's lover.
-The flag messengers stretching across the beach in Cobra Verde.
-Kinski playing with the butterfly in My Best Fiend.

I like Herzog, but I hated Woyzeck.

This documentary he did was brilliant!

Eierdiebe wrote: that horribly misguided Loch Ness mockumentary

Yeah, that was a shame. Unfortunate that he agreed to play a pastiche of himself, and while I guess it was self-effacing, the movie was offensively, embarassingly bad.

But he didn't write or direct the movie. He produced it and acted in it, for reasons which I care not to think about, but that horrible film is Zak Penn's fault.

Werner Herzog Eats His Shoe is one of my favorite short docs of all time. In it, he addresses a Berkeley audience with a statement along the lines of, "If you want to make a movie, do it. Just go out and do it." I guess there's going to be a Zak Penn who follows that advice time and again.

1977

07. Aguirre: Wrath of God (Werner Herzog)

1978

03. Heart of Glass (Werner Herzog)
04. Stroszek (Werner Herzog)

That's some score there! I'm guessing he doesn't do lazy.

Eierdiebe wrote: that horribly misguided Loch Ness mockumentary

any movie that features crispin glover, jeff goldblum and werner herzog breaking bread together is A-ok in my fucking books.

Not Crap. Not Crap. Not Crap. Not Crap. Not Crap.