The Code is Almighty wrote:I've said publicly that if Hillary wins I will leave the United States, and I fear I'm going to get called on it. I've no problem with a woman being President, just not that woman. Everything Panic said in his post about her is true. She's an evil opportunist and I get sick when I think of her in the White House.

She may well be the devil here on Earth.

I didn't say all that stuff was true, I just pointed out that those are her political liabilities. Most of those points are opinions that have already been widely promoted about her.

I feel that any aspersions cast upon her based on the actions of her husband are pretty much coming from a rather sexist viewpoint, judging a woman by the actions of "her man."

I'd like the believe it would be possible for the right man or woman to get elected to the presidency in this country, regardless race.

Skronk wrote:

sunset_gun wrote:That's only because we have a puss-i-fied Legislature. The President is really not that powerful if the other branches of government are doing their jobs.

It's not because they are "puss-i-fied", or it happened by accident. This shit happens purposefully. They work with each other.

Congress is there to be the voice of the People. The Democrats are not doing what they were put into office to do back in November. It's obvious the Nation wanted a change, but nothing has. The Legislature is not doing their job. They've rolled over and caved and cut off their own balls. The party is becoming famous for this.

Rick Reuben wrote:

sunset_gun wrote: The President is really not that powerful if the other branches of government are doing their jobs.

That argument rests on the antiquated assumption that Congress has any will to be an adversary to the executive branch. They are owned and operated by the same corporations that own the White House gang.

Which is why I said "in theory", and that the other branches of government are not doing their jobs.

sunset_gun wrote:
Congress is there to be the voice of the People.

This is another line from propaganda in public education. "They're here to work for us."

Rick Reuben wrote:

Minotaur029 wrote:In the bold, I was misleading and unclear. Sorry. Presidents affect the big picture (and it eventually trickles down to you [please don't criticize my use of the word "trickle" as a sure sign of my supposedly fascist, Republican leanings). More localized officials affect your life in direct ways.

What the fuck?? Bush's 'big picture' eventually trickles down to us??? Like what, dew off a melon?? Do you think that a trillion dollars spent on the war on terror and nearly 4000 dead servicemen is a trickle? Our standing in the world has been damaged thoroughly in seven years- is that a trickle down effect? It looks to me like the big picture has made us prisoners under a waterfall of debt, death, and dishonesty.

You need to take a deep breath and stop minimizing the carnage of this criminal administration, Minotaur. You sound like Galanter.

The Iraq war is hidden from us. We don't see the decay and the destruction. WE are unaffected. See a lot of dead soldiers on the tube and in the Trib? We don't really get to witness Europe's distaste for our country. We don't notice our civil liberties being taken away...even those of us that know they have been severely eroded can't really go through the IPass lane and say "George Bush knows what I'm doing!!"

It's like Doug Stanhope says...4000 dead soldiers? That's not real to us. He called the Virginia Tech shooting "entertainment" for the rest of us. I know that's horribly insensitive language...but if Americans can't SEE what's happening (like we could feel with substantially more casualties and see on our televisions re: Vietnam) then we are immune from reality as a nation.

Just because you and I know that terrible shit is going down...doesn't mean that the rest of the country isn't anestheticized by our Paris Hilton culture. Plus, even you and I are essentially kept in the dark when it comes to Iraq and all sorts of other terrible shit (this is much more true of me than you most likely...I'm guessing you've seen some soldier corpses and that sort of thing...not that it really matters to an educated person).

Neither is a big deal to me. I interact with a lot of 'regular' people in my job, I sit in break rooms all over the country and bullshit with people, all kinds of people, black, white, gay, straight, old, young, whatever. These are just regular working people all over the United States trying to get by. I have noticed a few things:

Bush is UNIVERSALY hated.
EVERYONE wants out of Iraq, now.
And nobody seems to even notice that Obama is sorta black and Hil'rae is a woman, it never comes up when this stuff is being discussed. People just talk about shit they've said or done and debate whether either would be good, just like anyone else.
The only time I hear it mentioned is when the media makes an issue out of it, then someone says 'that's right, we haven't had a woman president yet'

I have yet to hear anyone say that either their sex or race was at all an issue to them.

From hearing people talk, I have to say Hil'rae might take it. People aren't getting into Obama yet, hopefully he'll start coming out hard with some cool shit soon.

Back to you, Skronk...when it comes to Obama...I don't know the guy...but you can read his books and watch how he acts. My gut and strictly my gut tells me that he is a genuine man...as genuine as a man who chooses to become a politician can be.

Look at his background, you know? Political dodging and calculation are just a part of the game. Read the new Lincoln biography*...you think that guy was somehow pure? And he was a great president and a great man...he was also a great politician...it's an essentially evil art...but occasionally, good people choose to get involved anyway. I know Obama has said that people ask him "you're a good guy, why be a politician?" He just believes in trying to get something done...even if it deals with getting involved with an ugly-ass process.

That being said, no, I do not know the man personally.

*EDIT: It's called "Team of Rivals." It's truly incredible. Even though you detest politics...this story of Lincoln's genius as a politician is incredible.

Why, at all, should we put up with political dodging and calculation? Politics is a sick fucking game.

Germ War wrote:... because Democracy already fails you every day.

Minneapolis-St. Paul is balkanized now?
I had no idea.

Do you need help, Jeremy? Should I call the Red Cross?
Should I send Hardee's care packages?

Marsupialized wrote:I have yet to hear anyone say that either their sex or race was at all an issue to them.

That's because I don't think it's an issue people actually talk about (except in the South).

I think being black is a much bigger deal (as far as electability is concerned) than being a woman. In the case of Hillary, it's more the fact that she's Hillary that makes people concerned. She's a sexually ambiguous monster.