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Angus Jung wrote:I'd really like to vote for a candidate who is against this fucking bullshit war. If my choices are Bush and Kerry then I am fucked.

It looks like I will be writing in Kucinich.

Ralph Nader is still running, no?

sorry guys, but Nader is a crackpot.

gio wrote:sorry guys, but Nader is a crackpot.

I wish to fuck he wasn't running (yay 2-party system! Millionaires of the richest nation on earth competing before your disgusted eyes! Top-shelf assholes of the union divide and conquer!).

Where was I. . . um please don't vote Nader - but why's he a crackpot? He's an exceptionally principled, intelligent, stubborn, and resourceful fucker with ten times the credibility of either of the other assholes you folks get to vote for. He’d make a kickass American president. But, yes, yes, anything to ditch Bush. . .

nader is insane for reasons i've pointed out here before. like when he announced his candidacy, and then stated two things far more ridiculous than anything i recall hearing out of kerry's mouth:

1) he thinks he will take more votes away from the republicans than he will take away from the democrats

2) he thinks he stands a chance of winning the election this year

the guy is obviously a liar or an idiot.

YES, it's because of him that we have seatbelts. good for that. lotsa people throughout history did great things 30 years before they went insane.

toomanyhelicopters wrote:nader is insane for reasons i've pointed out here before. like when he announced his candidacy, and then stated two things far more ridiculous than anything i recall hearing out of kerry's mouth:

1) he thinks he will take more votes away from the republicans than he will take away from the democrats

2) he thinks he stands a chance of winning the election this year

the guy is obviously a liar or an idiot.

YES, it's because of him that we have seatbelts. good for that. lotsa people throughout history did great things 30 years before they went insane.

And you want people to cut the Christian faith some slack? Read some of his weekly columnsand get back to me if you still think he’s cracked.

I don’t know lots about Nader but I know he’s done and continues to do a lot of progressive shit. On a personal note, I was part of a group that successfully lobbied to get a Nader-inspired PIRG (Public Interest Research Group) in place on a fairly large, conservative campus and I am grateful he fuels the proliferation of such progressive organizations all over N. America.

Maybe Nader is clinically insane but he sure gets shit done. To date he’s been instrumental in the following organizations:

American Antitrust Institute
Appleseed Foundation
Arizona Center for Law in the Public Interest
Aviation Consumer Action Project
Capitol Hill News Service
Center for Auto Safety
Center for Insurance Research
Center for Justice and Democracy
Center for Science in the Public Interest
Center for Study of Responsive Law
Center for Women Policy Studies
Citizen Advocacy Center
Citizen Utility Boards
Citizen Works
Clean Water Action Project
Congress Project
Connecticut Citizen Action Group
Corporate Accountability Research Group
Democracy Rising
Disability Rights Center
Equal Justice Foundation
Essential Information
FANS (Fight to Advance the Nation's Sports)
Foundation for Taxpayers and Consumer Rights
Freedom of Information Clearinghouse
Georgia Legal Watch
Multinational Monitor
National Citizen's Coalition for Nursing Home Reform
National Coalition for Universities in the Public Interest
National Insurance Consumer Organization
Ohio Public Interest Action Group
Organization for Competitive Markets
Pension Rights Center
Princeton Project 55
PROD - truck safety
Public Citizen

Buyers Up
Citizen Action Group
Critical Mass Energy Project
Congress Watch
Global Trade Watch
Health Research Group
Litigation Group
Tax Reform Research Group
The Visitor's Center
Retired Professionals Action Group
Shafeek Nader Trust for the Community Interest
Student Public Interest Research Groups nationwide
Telecommunications Research and Action Center
Trial Lawyers for Public Justice




And who wouldn't relish the opportunity to see Nader debate Dubya on live television? Dubya would still come out looking better I suppose b/c the "average American" apparently distrusts and is intimidated by well-spoken, intelligent leaders who hold books right-side up and don’t ride the family dynasty into power. God Bless.

I wish Nader would drop out of the race, yes, but I don’t see any reason to put chinks in this guy’s armor when he’s been on the progressive side of every damn fight you can name.

hey bud, i thought very highly of him up until very recently. i woulda voted for him in the last election, but i was confident he would get the 5% he needed to get all recognized and whatnot, so i voted for a different 3rd party in the interest of establishing a more broad base of 3rd parties that were showing any signs of life. turns out he didn't get the 5%, which is a shame. i don't think he's a bad guy, UNTIL he declares that he's running this year, and makes the two statements i paraphrased above. i watched him say these things in an interview, with a relatively straight face. that he believes he will win the election this year. that's totally fucking insane. he really ought to know he doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell. and this is NOT the year to be out there trying to tweak the system. this is the year to not get more bush! and he's gonna help it happen. which i suppose is ultimately in nader's best interest, as four more of bush will probably end us up *way* fucked up, and make 3rd parties seem more viable. especially the green party could benefit, although he's not with them anymore, right? what happened there? but bush will probably continue to try and open up ANWAR, maybe open up the great lakes even. bush will probably do a lotta stuff that down the road will make 3rd party guys seem more desirable. who the hell knows. but could nader win this election, seriously? no fucking way. at that point, being an intelligent and sane and benevolent individual, he should consider what will best help out john q america. him running? how?

is there a french or overall european 'take' on the netherlands and the structure of its government, economy, society in general?

I'm from the netherlands, but not very politically involved/informed and I haven't read all of this. Though maybe i could shed some light.

We have a system where there's a lot of parties, which allows smaller parties to have a voice. Also I think that by European standards the control of the government, the chosen representatives, has bigger influence: opposition has more power. Big decisions aren't pushed through very easily. Which has its pros and cons too.

From 1994-2002 there was a coalition of the biggest left party (PVDA), the biggest right party (VVD) and the smaller progressive D66. This coalition was called 'Purple' and it was succesful, because it was pretty social and created a healthy economy at the same time. and I think it has influenced surrounding countries (like belgium) to form the same kind of coalitions.

From 2001 on the economy has been going downhill again (recession, huge unemployment still going on) however and after a big mess of about a year there's a more right-wing government.

I think the Netherlands are a pretty decent country to live in. The social laws make sure that not many people are actually poor. Although I do think that the standard of living is more and more depending on the health of the economy, which is more and more global (as has been said here) and more and more out of the hands of the government. Thus capitalism... it is crap.

Vote Green

Redline wrote:Vote Green

There is no provision, at this time, in the US electoral system to allow a third party to come into office. And even if they did they would be ineffective in a two party house.

The electoral College insures this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_college

if we were to revise the system say with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_runoff_voting
or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Transferable_Vote
or
If say someone like Clinton were to get up and say: "I am now changing my affiliation to the Progressive Party"

otherwise (as much as I would like to have more choices) YOU ARE THROWING YOU VOTE AWAY!!! and besides unless you live in a swing state it doesn't really matter much anyway

Cheers,

TheMilford wrote: YOU ARE THROWING YOU VOTE AWAY!!!

not a good argument against the Green, that

they just don't have a political project
I would say