1. Leffe is pretty much the best belgian beer, and they are world-renowned for good beers;
2. Guinness seems nice but there are much better home-brewn black beers here in Europe.
3. Everyone should try the croatian limited edition velebitsko ("Velebitian", after a mountain in Croatia) for special smokey flavor and no bad aftereffect, exclusively made with natural spring water from Velebit, Croatia ( and you should try that!).
4. No bad feelings but imported american beers here are pretty much watery. Budvar beets budweiser and any Miller beer inj about three grades

Franjo.

For summary of the current debate on Guinness and my $0.02, starting with quoting relevent statements so far:

stewie wrote:The technique is pretty simple, but since it's a two-part pour a lot of people don't bother doing it. Pull the tap towards you until it is completely horizontal, and have the glass tilted at 45 degrees, until it is about three-quarters full. Like most brews, you'll want the liquid to hit the side of the glass nice and smoothly.

Now let it sit for a little less than 2 minutes, until the "surge" settles completely. Then, hold the glass directly centered under the faucet, and push the tap *forward* to complete the pour. That's it. A decent pint should have a head of about 1 cm and it should be creamy and consistent.

Yeah I've heard all the statement on proper pouring technique as concerns Guinnes. What you describe is simple proper pouring technique, period. The way I've been taught to pour is to pour beer into a glass at a 45 degree angle down the side until the class is about 2/3rds to 3/4ths full then stand it upright and pour the rest. I think the main reason for this is nobody likes to drink something with too much of a head on it. If you just pour anything that's carbonated into a glass as quickly as possible you end up with a fizzy mess and have to wait until the carbonation settles. This goes for sodas as well.

I've seen people just pour straight into the glass and also people use a bent spoon that goes around the rim of the glass. The 'bent spoon' technique entails pouring in a similar fashion with the spoon until the glass is about 3/4ths full and then pouring the rest straight. I guess the spoon breaks the poor of the beer straight into the glass and cuts the carbonation 'surge' effect.

aurelialuz wrote:this isn't the way they do it in the UK. i don't know where americans got this, but my sources say it's bogus. just pour the fuckin beer already! and room temp if you please."

See the above, re: proper pouring technique. The only exception I see to the Guinness pouring technique is the addition of two minutes between the initial pour down the side of the glass at a 45 degree angle and the final pour into the remainder of the glass.

There's also a lot of other details and claims about Guinness, i.e. the Guinness is better the closer you get to the St. James Gate Brewery. The only significant claim that I can come up with comes from a friend who is Irish who said that there's Guinness brewed in Dublin and then there's Guinness brewed in London. Apparently the Guinness brewed in London is 'inferior' to Irish brewed Guinness. Allegedly most Guinness in the US is of the latter variety.

To summarize, anybody pouring a beer whereever they may be should be pouring by the proper technique of holding a glass at a 45 degree angle and slowly pouring down the side of the glass until the glass is 3/4ths full and then pouring the rest of the beer straight into the glass upright. I think my explanation concerning carbonation makes sense as to why instead of simply having the tone of some type of Guinness pouring voodoo.

Onto changing the subject rather quickly...

franz wrote:4. No bad feelings but imported american beers here are pretty much watery. Budvar beets budweiser and any Miller beer inj about three grades

I don't think most people would argue with you about Budweiser and Miller. They're pretty damn near water in the US too . I think most countries have that one crap corporate swill beer, ask Australians about Foster's. Unfortunately in the US we have a large batch of corporate breweries who mass manufacture beer and due to their size and ability to spend lots of money on marketing this seems to be 'representational' of American beer abroad. I don't think too many people would argue that the American Budweiser is crap and would spend a great deal of time defending it. I just wouldn't say that 'all US beer is shit' when we have a fair share of decent 'microbreweries' all over the country who make decent quality beer, i.e. Anchor, Rogue, Celis, etc.



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Negra Modelo

yokophono wrote:The only significant claim that I can come up with comes from a friend who is Irish who said that there's Guinness brewed in Dublin and then there's Guinness brewed in London. Apparently the Guinness brewed in London is 'inferior' to Irish brewed Guinness. Allegedly most Guinness in the US is of the latter variety.

I was a bit disappointed when I actually went to Dublin. A friend of mine had recently gone to St. James Gate Brewery and said it's so good there he can't even drink it here anymore. I drink a LOT of Guinness, and I personally didn't think it was all that different there. In fact Guinness has done tests pitting Dublin brewed Guinness against Guinness brewed in other countries, of which there are 50, and the result was all the people saying the Dublin brew was so much better, couldn't even tell the difference. I think most people think it's better because they want it to be.

Yeah, I've never been to Dublin so I can't say. I just think Guinness, as much as I like a good stout, has it's own degree of mythology and urban legend about how the methodoly of serving it properly to optimize the taste or whatever. I guess if you've gotten poeple into believing that you have to slaughter a goat over the tap before pouring then say three hail marys between each sip for optimum taste they're going to believe it's ten times better.

I would assume that if there's a difference it might just have to do with better quality control at the St. James Gate brewery compared to the satelittes. Anytime you mass produce something then you're more than likely ending up with an inferior product. I figure that might be the 'rational' part of the argument.

Another good one that I'm looking for the truth on is that beer bottled in green bottles or clear bottles tend to taste bad after time due to more exposure to light compared to brown glass bottles. Someone explained this as a reason why Pilsner Urquel in the US doesn't taste that great compared to Pilsner Urquel in the Czech Republic.

yokophono wrote:1. Celis Bock -- a nice bock from a an American microwbrewer who does Belgian style brews.

Is this still available? I haven't seen it in years, and was told they had ceased production. It was a nice alternative to Shiner when Shiner started sucking ase.

Sad to say, but Coors' (I believe) "Shiner-killer", Ziegen Bock, isn't half-bad.

But I also have an affinity for Lone Star.

mb

Those are great Texas beers. I frequent them all!

Shiner does get a bit old... although it is a staple brew here in Texas. I always thought Zeigen Bock was a bit more my style (and cheaper... woo hoo). Lone Star is great when you want a light brew with some stank on it... and you don't have much money. It's my show beer. Gotta love it!

Have you tried the Shiner Light yet?! You have to thing: "what's the point?!"

XBangyrdead wrote:Those are great Texas beers. I frequent them all!

Shiner does get a bit old... although it is a staple brew here in Texas. I always thought Zeigen Bock was a bit more my style (and cheaper... woo hoo). Lone Star is great when you want a light brew with some stank on it... and you don't have much money. It's my show beer. Gotta love it!

Have you tried the Shiner Light yet?! You have to thing: "what's the point?!"

I haven't tried the Light, but we did get a keg of their Hefeweissen at the club here, and I thought it fuckin' blew.

When I do drink beer, I've mostly been drinking Lone Star or Newcastle. (If I can get 1554 or Paulaner, I'll drink that over anything.) Usually, though, I'm a bourbon man.

mb

Yeah... the Hefeweissen isn't very good. At all. I've always dug Shiner Blonde though. The Winter Ale is really good too. I dig it alot. And they used to have a Kosmo's Reserve. It was really hoppy and different than any of the others. Good Stuff.

Has anyone tried Flying Dog?! They have a few different beers. It's a microbrewery out of Colorado. The pale ale is fantastic.

Sam Smith's Winter Welcome is outstanding. Overall one of the best in my book. Most Sam Smith beverages are pretty tasty. At $4.00 a pint, there's no excuse....