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I don't think those Klobuchar numbers were what put ol Joe over the top. She got 3% of the vote in S. Carolina. I mean, I get it. Why the fuck would so many people vote for Joe Biden? It certainly surprised me. It also surprised me, my fellow teachers union members, all the blue bloods of New England, and every TV pundit when Trump won. But when you are a Sanders type of person and you tend to speak with people and read publications that share that vision it gets harder to imagine the 19 million people who voted in a primary and said "Biden is my guy," let alone the nihilists who'd vote for a man like Donald Trump. They're all out there whether we relate to them or not. There are more of those people than people like you and me.

At the end of the day, after all of the heartache even if Sanders had magically won he'd still be stuck with the legislative shit clog that is Joe Manchin. Some of his best ideas channeled through Biden have died in the Senate too.

None of this explains the current SCOTUS.

Here's the obvious problem with the whole "More Of Them..." angle...

If a little over forty-nine million folks were registered Dems last year and Biden had well under twenty million to wind the nomination?

I'm just going to have to shake my head at anything like that.

Dude could not even hit three out of five Registered Democrats...

Never mind that the guy won the election with under eighty-two million in a country of two hundred fifty-eight million folk over voting age.

Or that Dems managed to face plant in the House.

Yes but that was when Biden won the election with the highest percentage turnout except perhaps JFK.

losthighway wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:56 pm Yes but that was when Biden won the election with the highest percentage turnout except perhaps JFK.

And...

Still wound up with the same percentage of overall voting age adults as HRC.

When he was running against an opponent who was taking a flamethrower to his own chances...

That probably won't happen a second time, and they couldn't even make much of anything good out of it when they had the chance.

About the same percentage overall as HRC/Scraped by to get a Presidential win/Managed to damn near lose control in the House

That all happened when they had the wind at their collective back.

Couple of things:

—Speaking from Dallas, although the state of Texas is bright fucking red, the cities are not. I know you were using that as a placeholder name to make a point, but this is also important to my next point. The 3 big cities here vote democratic, are largely progressive, contribute the most to the states revenue stream.

—This is no longer a representative government at the Federal or State levels. If you want my evaluation, this is the most problematic issue we face - the inability of any of these governments to react in any meaningful way to their constituents. This is either going to have to dramatically change or I think our shit is toast, and soon. We pretend that a government making decisions - in secret in this case, which on its’ own face is ridiculous - at the pace the founders intended is good. It is not and needs to be evolved immediately.

—Progressives who “sat out” in 16 becuz DNC HRC WTF had every right to do so. They also should understand that sitting out is as good as voting - you still participated in the outcome. Anyone interested in the best result for humans in America would have voted.

—There is a real divide between reds and blues, and it feels like things will soon become so fractured it’ll get ugly. I know that my wife and I have talked about an exit strategy from Texas should we need it.

numberthirty wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:07 pm

losthighway wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:56 pm Yes but that was when Biden won the election with the highest percentage turnout except perhaps JFK.

And...

Still wound up with the same percentage of overall voting age adults as HRC.

When he was running against an opponent who was taking a flamethrower to his own chances...

That probably won't happen a second time, and they couldn't even make much of anything good out of it when they had the chance.

About the same percentage overall as HRC/Scraped by to get a Presidential win/Managed to damn near lose control in the House

That all happened when they had the wind at their collective back.

Just to be clear, and maybe I already am:

Biden is not great. My rhetoric prefers examples of the sheer number of people who voted for him, not to claim his magnificence, but to marvel at the sheer popularity of someone so.... meh. I think you've masterfully chosen examples of his feebleness. I appreciate how well you've done it. We clearly both want a better option, this is just a debate about attribution. I think a lot of Americans like mediocre shit, basically.

An outside observer might conclude in our back and forth that the real massive number of Americans are the ones who don't give a fuck about voting every time.

Frankie99 wrote: —Progressives who “sat out” in 16 becuz DNC HRC WTF had every right to do so. They also should understand that sitting out is as good as voting - you still participated in the outcome. Anyone interested in the best result for humans in America would have voted.

Yes. Exactly.

I have zero regrets in voting in the general for both HRC and JB. I think everyone on here wants to see someone more worthy get some fucking traction, and it's clear the general public, the Democratic party, the two party system, and dark money are just a few items on the laundry list that has made that hard since about all of the modern American political history that I know and understand.

I guess what I really wanted to point out is "Ha, they fuckin deserve it those clowns," Has never been a winning strategy for evolving the democratic party of the USA. Our century of low voter participation has shown that it is a lesson that has never taught anyone anything.

losthighway wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:33 pm
I guess what I really wanted to point out is "Ha, they fuckin deserve it those clowns," Has never been a winning strategy for evolving the democratic party of the USA. Our century of low voter participation has shown that it is a lesson that has never taught anyone anything.

harrumph, hear hear!

motorbike guy wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 12:27 pm Randy, if you don't vote for the lesser of two evils,

Curry Pervert wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 4:13 pm

That's only true if the lesser of two evils never gets in, fwiw.

A_Man_Who_Tries wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 4:40 pmThat's only true if the lesser of two evils never gets in, fwiw.

In other words, it's only true if you DON'T vote for the lesser of two evils...

You have a stupid two party system, but there it is. You get to choose between two things and unless somebody can make a convincing case for deliberately picking the worse option, you will be called upon to support the lesser of two evils. Like losthighway says, a century of low participation should be demonstration enough that abstaining in protest achieves fuck all.

While the immediate and long-lasting effects of allowing the greater of two evils to prevail even once should be quite apparent by now.