Premier Rock Forum

Teacher's Pet wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:12 pm The Police 'Outlandos D'Amour' rules. GAMYF.

Yeah, except for that spoken "prog" mess of a song. Otherwise, it's probably the only listenable thing that Sting has done.

"Sting?! More like Stink!" - My Dad, back in the day.

I used to generally agree w/ this sentiment up until a few years ago, but now I generally disagree with it, especially with my favourite bands where I'm familiar w/ the entire discography.

Generally, the more records I explore, the more I like. I can't think of one band I love where I really rate the debut over everything else. Even if I love the debut, I also like other records as much, if not more, from the rest of their catalogue.

Many exceptions* aside, it strikes me as unlikely that (generally) bands won't improve over time. In every sphere of activity people get better at something the more they do it. I can't think of one personal example where I accomplished something for the first time and the results were better than any subsequent attempt. Why do we think art is any different?

(* Some exceptions for declining returns / fallow periods: market place realities, the album cycle and touring sapping passion and / or inspiration, line up changes, paycheck mentality and / or complacency, bands burning out and hooking up on drugs or politics (the 2 greatest enemies of art), etc etc...)

I mean - no offense here, but this is such a great example - but the people saying Show No Mercy is the best Slayer record - ARE YOU ON DRUGS? Badly recorded, scrappy sounding, still in thrall to their influences - that's better than Reign In Blood? Again, no offense, I understand taste is subjective BUT ARE YOU FUCKING NUTS?

Also, Catastrophe Ballet is a better record than Only Theatre of Pain. Easily better.

numberthirty wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:08 pm
One should not own any of the Def Leppard albums after High 'n' Dry.

FYP

M.H wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:30 pm I mean - no offense here, but this is such a great example - but the people saying Show No Mercy is the best Slayer record - ARE YOU ON DRUGS? Badly recorded, scrappy sounding, still in thrall to their influences - that's better than Reign In Blood? Again, no offense, I understand taste is subjective BUT ARE YOU FUCKING NUTS?

Not on Drugs, but Yes I am FUCKING NUTS. Show No Mercy is and has always been the one that hit me hardest. Don't know if it's better than R.i.B. but, I like it more.

It's a good thing he didn't stop there, as plenty of other swell things followed, but I've long felt that Songs of Leonard Cohen is his best LP.

M.H wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:31 pm Also, Catastrophe Ballet is a better record than Only Theatre of Pain. Easily better.

M.H wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:30 pm ...no offense, I understand taste is subjective BUT ARE YOU FUCKING NUTS?

Songs of Leonard Cohen is an incredible record, but I'm not sure I'd take it over Songs of Love and Hate. I don't think SNM is the best Slayer record, but it's unique and awesome. I think SoH is the strongest overall.

Songs of Love and Hate has "Dress Rehearsal Rag," which should be near the top of any list compiling the heaviest songs that aren't actually "heavy" in the sonic or aesthetic sense. As far as post-war cinematic dirges by white North Americans go, it's hard to beat. The one time I saw Cohen, with his full band, it wasn't dirge-y at all, but more cooly celebratory, like European night club music that I felt underdressed for and lucky to witness. Cohen's first three LPs are comparable, and essential, and there's plenty to like after that, but I think the first one has the best sequence. The production elements are truly great in that they never draw too much attention to themselves but if you stripped them away, the songs would be worse off.

Absurd take I know, but I think the finest Leonard Cohen album is his last one, and that's not a knock on the others. I just find You Want it Darker oddly magical.