The Gira situation wasn't really that simple.

Other people--former friends and musical collaborators of hers, including at least one woman--cast doubt on the situation, claiming she'd made similar allegations against them and others when they'd crossed her, years before. That she had a history of mental instability and that this was a pattern of hers. Which obviously doesn't prove or disprove anything regarding one specific incident. But still...

Gira also claimed he had proof (god knows that the meant and I'm not sure I'd want to) that she was twisting the situation. She soon wiped most of her allegations from the public sphere and dropped the issue. Maybe there's some doubt there. Or maybe she said what she needed to say and just wanted to live her life and not deal w/the ensuing public drama. It basically became a he said/she said thing, and it seems like both parties have moved on.

Perhaps it was resolved in private (which, frankly, I think beats the court of public opinion), or not at all.

I am sorry to be like this, but thus far nothing I've seen anywhere actually contradicts this:

people tacitly agreed, for whatever reasons, [...] to accept his [Gira's] version, i.e. that the woman who said he raped her is "crazy."

I will further observe that it is not uncommon for perpetrators of sexual assault to target people who are known to be mentally ill, on the time-tested theory that probably no one is going to believe them. In other words, someone having a mental illness (including psychosis, hallucinations, delusions, and personality disorders in which lying and manipulation occur) doesn't, in itself, obviate the possibility that they were assaulted.

Beyond that I know, and therefore will say, nothing.

No need to apologize! Targets of opportunity, sure. And I agree that it doesn't necessarily speak to the veracity or lack thereof of the claim.

I suppose the only quibble I'd have is that I don't recall Gira commenting on her mental state in his version of events. He said there was consent and that he possessed proof of this. Members of a band called Heroes Are Gang Leaders plus other people from her past made those comments about her mental stability, claiming she'd said similar things about them. None of those people had any ties to Gira.

Michael Gira's wife responded to the allegations, which I thought was a particularly cowardly and shitty way to handle it. And she didn't mice words. She was openly disparaging of the accuser, describing her as "crazy, manic/bipolar, obsessive, etc."

Just like how the dude from Arcade Fire had his wife issue a statement about how he could never do what he's being accused of doing because he's so great.

Also, what is the deal with Gira and the Arcade Fire guy wearing these ridiculous wide brim hats? Nothing says "I am so far out of touch" like wearing a hat like that.

Sun Kil Moon put out an album in 2021, after all his shit came to light, and he's got some upcoming European tour dates. Maybe he's playing specifically to a pro-manipulation and nonconsensual sex fanbase, kinda like how Louis CK plays to his new audience.

*edited because I thought of a funnier thing to say about the hat

Tom Wanderer wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:55 pm Michael Gira's wife responded to the allegations, which I thought was a particularly cowardly and shitty way to handle it. And she didn't mice words. She was openly disparaging of the accuser, describing her as "crazy, manic/bipolar, obsessive, etc."

Just like how the dude from Arcade Fire had his wife issue a statement about how he could never do what he's being accused of doing because he's so great.

Also, what is the deal with Gira and the Arcade Fire guy wearing these ridiculous wide brim hats? Nothing says "I am so far out of touch" like wearing a hat like that.

Maybe women should take the hat as a sign.

Yeah it's weird when wives/gfs come out and defend their men.

Tom Wanderer wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:55 pm Sun Kil Moon put out an album in 2021, after all his shit came to light, and he's got some upcoming European tour dates. Maybe he's playing specifically to a pro-manipulation and nonconsensual sex fanbase, kinda like how Louis CK plays to his new audience.

Yeah.. I often wonder what percentage of music fans actually read about or remember this stuff. I still see SKM/Red House Painters come up on indie playlists, along with The Smiths and even solo Morrissey (yeah very different reasons, but still sickening).

But the real problem is Cancel Culture ruining the careers of so many men

If I remember correctly, Gira has said he got that hat from Jarboe's father, who was an FBI agent.

penningtron wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:10 pm But the real problem is Cancel Culture ruining the careers of so many men

It would be nice it it was ruining their careers...but it's not. Having to face the reality of their own actions sure gives them plenty to complain about though.

Oh hey, Ryan Adams is on tour.

And I said 'reality' not 'consequences' because most don't ever face any kind of consequences. They just get to appear on stage with Kanye milling around like idiots.

I believe Gira did issue a statement, and nowhere did he, personally, reference the woman's mental state. His wife's thing was another story--her emotional reaction on Facebook or some such noise. Gira's ex-wife also came out in support of him, for what that's worth.

I think this blew over b/c so many people had unflattering things to say about the accuser re: a track record of alleged manipulative behavior and making stuff up. It also didn't help that she was not truthful in her claim about the circumstances surrounding her departure from his record label. (She said he singled her out and dropped her, when in fact the whole label and its roster folded for unrelated financial reasons. That part was provable.) Again, means nothing re: rape or not. But I don't think it helped her cause. Furthermore, unlike Win Butler and others, nobody else came out against Gira.

And I dunno, maybe the Conor Oberst false-accusation fiasco was fresh in people's memory, rare as those things are. So I think that's why it went down like it did. Some people were convinced, others not, and a lot of people just didn't know what to make of it. Plus, neither party really continued pressing the issue.

Men Without Hats...