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act: giving to panhandlers
Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:48 pm
by Skronk_Archive
syntaxfree07 wrote:madlee wrote:I think most panhandlers are not homeless.
I immediately thought of nietzsche's maxim "one is punished most for one's good deeds."
Nietzsche... Great.
Fuck you.
Did you purposefully skip over the rest of Madlee's post?
madlee wrote:A few years ago when I used to take I95 to work, sometimes I'd see the same guy at the entrance panhandling. If it was a particularly bad day weather wise, you could guarantee he'd be there. I gave him money a few times. The last time I did, I almost got killed by a tractor trailer who swerved into my lane. I immediately thought of nietzsche's maxim "one is punished most for one's good deeds."
act: giving to panhandlers
Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:12 pm
by madlee_Archive
Skronk wrote:syntaxfree07 wrote:madlee wrote:I think most panhandlers are not homeless.
I immediately thought of nietzsche's maxim "one is punished most for one's good deeds."
Nietzsche... Great.
Fuck you.
Did you purposefully skip over the rest of Madlee's post?
madlee wrote:A few years ago when I used to take I95 to work, sometimes I'd see the same guy at the entrance panhandling. If it was a particularly bad day weather wise, you could guarantee he'd be there. I gave him money a few times. The last time I did, I almost got killed by a tractor trailer who swerved into my lane. I immediately thought of nietzsche's maxim "one is punished most for one's good deeds."
skronk - great blog!
ah, I'm not one who falls for the bitter stuff, but I see that maxim as simply an indication that good deeds don't come cheap, otherwise everybody would do them.
here's a heartbreaking story:
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_up ... ssway.html
anyway, perhaps syntax thought I was clocker bob or maybe he's just doing the internet bulletin board hostility thing??
act: giving to panhandlers
Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:24 pm
by syntaxfree07_Archive
madlee wrote:ah, I'm not one who falls for the bitter stuff, but I see that maxim as simply an indication that good deeds don't come cheap, otherwise everybody would do them.
Reverse karma? Please... Enough mysticism. A Nietzsche quote in a thread about sacrifice for the benefit of others is retarded.
act: giving to panhandlers
Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:42 pm
by areopagite_Archive
Rick Reuben wrote:YOU LIVE IN A HOUSEBOAT!
act: giving to panhandlers
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:27 pm
by Abductor
Federal expenditures for low-cost housing plunged during Reagan's watch from $32 billion in 1981 to just $7 billion in 1987.
At the same time, funding was slashed for a variety of social services, including public health, drug rehab and food stamps -- programs that were relied upon by the thousands of mentally ill people who'd been released from state facilities as a cost-cutting move.
Reagan was asked in a 1988 interview, shortly before Christmas, what he thought of the homeless people sleeping just across the street from the White House in Lafayette Park.
"There are always going to be people," Clocker Rick Reagan replied. "They make it their own choice for staying out there."
act: giving to panhandlers
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:26 pm
by Conchis_Archive
I’ve scanned the last 28 pages, but by no means have read every post. If I’ve missed it, my apologies, but seems like there’s been hardly any discussion about alternatives to giving cash to panhandlers.
I’d argue that the only certain benefit to giving cash to a homeless person is to your own self-esteem. Any benefit to the homeless person is far less certain, and at best only short term. And there is the potential for longer-term damage, as it basically helps them maintain a miserable station in life.
Really, the goal is for them to start working. Now of course there’s a percentage of the homeless population that is basically a lost cause, but many others, with the proper help, are able to get out of their situation. But it takes help. And not in the form of a $1 bill. What they need is stabilization, a stable roof over their head, and all sorts of training. So basically they need the attention of professional social services professionals. Often times homeless people don’t want this attention, because it usually comes with strings attached – reciprocal demands, and some are so demoralized and used to merely “maintaining” that they either have no desire or feel completely unable to take the steps that will help them in the long term. Getting dollars on the street from some of the hipsters on this board basically makes it easier for them to not take those difficult steps.
But what about those hopeless cases who you just know will never, ever function in society? As far as they go – well the social services agencies near where I live do a pretty good job of keeping them fed as well. Of course it varies from town to town, but let’s take my town as an example. On the north side of Chicago there is a glut of social service agencies seemingly overflowing with federal, state and grant dollars. It is FAR better for the homeless to get their food at one of these places, where they have a much greater chance of receiving some viable longterm help. The only caveat to this point is you need to be wary of some social service agencies which exist primarily to suck up as much govt money and private donations, and then simply feed and institutionally “maintain” as a standard practice with no meaningful effort to transform lives. I HATE those fuckers. And any decent social services professional does too.
So if you want to make a real difference, find an agency that is doing good work and give them $$ and/or your time, but don’t help a homeless person remain a beggar.
So yeah, I’m voting CRAP.
act: giving to panhandlers
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:04 am
by yaphet_Archive
Used to.
I was walking to my car after eating and had a box of my leftover mac and cheese with me, dude asked me for some money, I didn't have cash, but I offered him my mac and cheese, which was fucking delicious, he looked at me real crazy and said no.
Fucking junkie.
Plus my car has been broken into twice in the past two years and I wouldn't doubt it if it was some junkie fucking homeless scumfuck. I am less charitable these days.
act: giving to panhandlers
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:51 am
by Nico Adie_Archive
In my job, I see pretty complete accounts of people's lives. From birth to death. Every single one of the people who end up being "of no fixed abode" has had a trauma of some sort in their lives, be it child abuse, death of a relative/partner, embarrassing illness that leads to psychological problems etc. Every single one.
I feel sorry for these people, and if I can help them by giving them a quid or two, then I will.
act: giving to panhandlers
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:07 am
by bigc_Archive
Rick Reuben wrote:SecondEdition wrote: This thread is about giving to panhandlers, Rick, and you are on the 27th page screeching everyone down to show that you, you, and only YOU are right.
Wrong. I am defending the philosophy of selective handouts to bums, against those who declare that anyone who does not give in every case is a heartless, greedy, sick fuck. Try reading the thread from the beginning. Take note of who attacked whom first. Those who demand that everyone give every time and never question the bum's story cast the first stones against those who advised selective handouts. All you have to do is read the thread in order to see this.
I'll help you out. Here are the insults cast by those who do not live in the real world. They came first. Read all of page 1. Nobody is insulting those who say 'give in every case'. Then turn to page two- Steve's first post to the thread:
steve wrote:I give money to bums at every opportunity. I used to think I wasn't doing them any favor if I did, and then I realized that whatever I gave the dude would be trivial to me, but might let him get through his miserable fucking day easier. Lately it's been five bucks.
His life easier>me having an extra couple bucks.
I'm starting to think less of my former not-giving-money-to-bums self, and everyone else who doesn't give money to bums.
Albini couldn't just say, "This is what works for me." He had to take a shot. And then the sycophants pour in.
Angus Jung the next to decide that he had the right to judge the charity of others':
Angus Jung wrote:steve wrote:I give money to bums at every opportunity. I used to think I wasn't doing them any favor if I did, and then I realized that whatever I gave the dude would be trivial to me, but might let him get through his miserable fucking day easier. Lately it's been five bucks.
His life easier>me having an extra couple bucks.
I'm starting to think less of my former not-giving-money-to-bums self, and everyone else who doesn't give money to bums.
Spot on.
I love the idea that standing outside all day every day asking people for a small amount of money is tantamout to running some kind of "scam."
Stand outside all day, just one whole day, and try to run this "scam" rather than living a Kevin Smith movie, and see how you like it.
Bad Comrade patiently tries to explain to Jung that everyone is not worthy, but the pious judgemental crowd did not want to hear about reality:
bad comrade wrote:Some of those people do "scam". Usually they're obvious... The "Excuse me sir, I don't know where I am, and my car ran out of gas just down the street, and I just need like $5 so I can get back on the road and try to find my way home...", the "hey man, I need $1 to get on the bus, I gotta get back home and I live all the way on the south side", etc. If you spend a lot of time in an area full of these people, you'll learn just how many of them are full of shit. The woman I spoke of who "stands outside every day" (actually she walks around) and apparently makes $50 or so a day could pay the rent for my apartment after 8 days of asking everyone she sees for a dollar.
What do you think she does with the other $1100 or so she makes the rest of the month? Is she just "scraping by" on that? I'm sure she's not sharing it with the homeless guy with no legs who sits outside the grocery store I used to shop at...
Jibbering trust-funded twerp Antero weighs in next with his 'me too, steve, me too!' response:
antero wrote:The day I can't spare a dude a dollar is the day my finances are so fucked that I'LL be asking for your change.
I don't care if they're "scamming" or whatever - seems to me that the various permutations of "unemployed and begging for money" don't actually change that much with a sob story. Crackhead? Fuckit, I'd rather he be asking for money than out attacking people. Whatever. I have, other people don't - why be a dick about it? Show some love, it comes back to you.
I don't know. Maybe I'd just like to live in a world where people didn't care about money, and if someone says, "Guys, help me out!" someone would stand up.
Yes, I think less of people who don't.
And then silver spoon Antero finished starting the argument with this reply on page 4:
Antero wrote:BadComrade wrote:Like I said, it comes down to this: I don't like people that beg for money when they don't deserve it. If you come at me with a "who are you to decide who is and who isn't deserving of money", I'll tell you that I am, because it's my fucking money that I worked for. There's a "tip jar" at the Mexican restaurant I go to when I'm at work. I pay for my food, they wrap it in foil and hand it to me. This is not deserving of a tip... this is something they're paid hourly for. If I was eating there, and the waitress was going out of her way to refill my drink, get me napkins, etc, then I'd give her 20-25% of whatever the bill was. Fuck people begging for money they don't deserve. I would never put a tip jar on the counter of the record store I work in, with my reasoning being that it's "hard work" to go grab the CDs that people want to buy from behind the counter.
My god, you make me sad. Are you truly that solipsistic? Do you actually look at yourself and think, yes, this in any way resembles what you consider a good person?
And jesus, there are thousands of you.
So you see, Second Edition, if you want to talk about 'who's the asshole?', you need to read the thread, in order, and not overlook the fact that Steve was the first to insult people who give selectively.
I just read the whole thread.
You're an asshole.
act: giving to panhandlers
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:46 am
by NerblyBear_Archive
Conchis, that was an excellent post. I think you correctly identified just how little giving a few bucks here an there will contribute to lessening the huge problems these guys face. And I realize it's less than a drop in the bucket of what could be if we made a larger societal effort.
I think that Rick Reuben makes good points, too. There are a lot of scam artists out there. There are also a lot of psycho fucks who will turn on you and threaten you if you don't give them anything. I think it's ridiculous to perpetuate that mindset by giving those types of people five bucks. I have run into more than a few guys who, if I give them a few dollars, won't say, "Thanks," but will prod me for more. For reasons such as these, I don't think we should automatically think less of someone just because he refuses to give handouts. However, I have run into people who genuinely seem like they need it and are grateful for any help. I feel good about giving to them, so I'm much less discretionary on a general basis because of that. I think it's more of a case-by-case basis -- at least, that's what I do. I usually give a few bucks, but not if the guy is obviously drunk or flying on meth right as he's trying to convince me he needs a bus ticket. Yeah, right.
I can say with virtual certainty that 90 percent of the guys I give handouts to are either (a) crackheads or (b) meth addicts. They all have deeply bloodshot eyes and most of them are missing teeth. It makes me really uncomfortable to know that the five bucks I give them will just contribute to them making their lives even worse.
Rick, if you do give hundreds of dollars of your income to a service that provides food to the homeless, you do more than any of us probably do, so I can definitely see where you're coming from.