Alec Eiffel, Sad punk, Umass

mattw wrote:This is a much better album than Bossanova. The whole last half of that record sucks, save for "Havalina." "Dig for Fire"? Psssh. In terms of intensity, easily on par w/ Surfer Rosa.

Eric Drew Feldman came up w/ that loopy keyboard part at the end of "Alec Eiffel" and then Black Francis just constructed the last half of the song around that- probably my favorite part of the album.

Hangwire is a great song, marred by the bad production that flawed both Bossanova and Trompe Le Monde. I tend to think of these albums of being the obvious precursor to Frank Black solo albums, which are simply Black Francis pulling a Bryan Ferry on his Roxy Music.

Would that make Kim his Eno?

Mark Van Deel wrote:Would that make Kim his Eno?

Well, that's essentially where I was heading, but that would be hijacking the thread.

I dislike Last Splash more than I dislike TLM, but that too, is a production hang-up.

In my view, Pixies fans who really like TLM tend to love Doolittle and are more generous in their assessment of Frank Black. I tend to gravitate towards the Purple Tape/Surfer Rosa/Doolittle era, and view Kim Deal as having the greater artistic credibilty. I thing patriarchy plays into The Pixies mistique more than has been suggested.

Brinkman wrote:In my view, Pixies fans who really like TLM tend to love Doolittle and are more generous in their assessment of Frank Black. I tend to gravitate towards the Purple Tape/Surfer Rosa/Doolittle era, and view Kim Deal as having the greater artistic credibilty. I thing patriarchy plays into The Pixies mistique more than has been suggested.

Interesting point...I don't know if I agree with you but its worth considering. For the record, I like both Frank Black and Kim Deal. I don't understand people who feel like they have to choose one or the other...just as I don't understand people who want to make unfair comparisons between albums. I like Trompe Le Monde, I like Surfer Rosa...but I realize that they are different albums recorded by different people, in different places, at different times. The only thing the same is the band...who aren't quite the same because they too have changed. I like that quality in a band. Its natural.

I shouldn't chime in...but I don't understand why you guys love this record so much. Maybe I need to be more of a Pixies fan, but Surfer Rosa seems to me to be head and shoulders above other Pixies material. Doolittle is really inconsistent, Bossanova is boring, Trompe le Monde seems fairly accomplished...but has a high cheese factor.

I guess the pre-Rosa stuff is pretty good, too.

Beyond "Debaser" and "Tame," I never understood why Doolittle was supposed to be so good. Surfer Rosa is an A-...the rest is like B to B- stuff...which is pretty good for a career I guess.

I challenge you to listen to the track order of Rosa and line it up against any other Pixies album. Rosa is desperate and explosive...the rest is Bob Dole limp.

Minotaur029 wrote:I challenge you to listen to the track order of Rosa and line it up against any other Pixies album. Rosa is desperate and explosive...the rest is Bob Dole limp.

The rest isn't limp ... it's just crafted and honed. The desperate and explosive parts aren't all that Frank has in his bag of tricks.

In my view, Pixies fans who really like TLM tend to love Doolittle and are more generous in their assessment of Frank Black.

Put me in that category. I'd take Teenager of the Year or Dog in the Sand over Surfer Rosa any day of the week. I like how his oddball pop songcraft matured. Rosa is a cool record, but beneath it's shouty, jagged surface it seems pretty shallow compared to later work. And it doesn't deliver nearly as many chills-down-the-spine, goddamn-that's-brilliant moments.

JC23by5 wrote:

Brinkman wrote:In my view, Pixies fans who really like TLM tend to love Doolittle and are more generous in their assessment of Frank Black. I tend to gravitate towards the Purple Tape/Surfer Rosa/Doolittle era, and view Kim Deal as having the greater artistic credibilty. I thing patriarchy plays into The Pixies mistique more than has been suggested.

Interesting point...I don't know if I agree with you but its worth considering. For the record, I like both Frank Black and Kim Deal. I don't understand people who feel like they have to choose one or the other...just as I don't understand people who want to make unfair comparisons between albums. I like Trompe Le Monde, I like Surfer Rosa...but I realize that they are different albums recorded by different people, in different places, at different times. The only thing the same is the band...who aren't quite the same because they too have changed. I like that quality in a band. Its natural.

Second that. Honestly the only album that doesn't set my heart on fire every time is Come On Pilgrim. Maybe it's cuz I didn't own it until about 5 years ago and it isn't in my DNA like Surfer Rosa or others.

Minotaur029 wrote:I shouldn't chime in...but I don't understand why you guys love this record so much. Maybe I need to be more of a Pixies fan, but Surfer Rosa seems to me to be head and shoulders above other Pixies material. Doolittle is really inconsistent, Bossanova is boring, Trompe le Monde seems fairly accomplished...but has a high cheese factor.

I like the cheese factor in Trompe Le Monde, if the keyboards and general layering is what you refer to. Yes it is a clear precursor to Frank Black's s/t solo album, which is no Pixies record, though it does have some soul-crushing moments amidst the corn nuggets.

I like 'Trompe Le Monde' but it's still the weakest album.

'Surfer Rosa' has that incredible sound. The drums in particular.

Boombats wrote: but listen to the drum beats and tempo on all the fast songs and you'll see what I mean. Or you'll get cancer. Whatever, same to me you philistine.

Soak me in your cultural learnings, oh hip bass slapper.

The test of a good album is to be able to overlisten to it and have it recover within a reasonable time. Touche Le Merde gets tiring quickly and stays annoying forever once you've hit that wall. Not so with the first Pixies EPs.