Rick Reuben wrote:honeyisfunny wrote:You don't live here. End of debate.
Says a jibbering fool who claims to have studied 9/11 ( a US event)
I think 9/11 affected a few more countries than America.
holmes wrote:... particularly amongst young adults in these places there is a genuine lack of empathy, that is completly alien on such a scale to even 10 or so years ago
That's a very good way of wording it. I wish I'd said that as you've hit the nail on the head. It really is a complete absence of empathy with fellow people.
Rick Reuben wrote:honeyisfunny says the kids act out because they perceive 'no ceiling on their behavior'- which is a direct suggestion that the kids know they can carry weapons and use them.
I didn't mean it quite like that. I meant that, in the city I live in anyway, there is a lack of understanding of exactly what the outcome of someone's actions will be, at least until it's too late. That's what I mean by 'ceiling', I don't mean it directly related to weapons, I mean that kids here don't understand that if you stamp on someone's head enough they will die. And that means they will no longer be alive. They will no longer exist. You will have taken their life. Etc etc.
You could say this to a group of kids I used to work with when I worked for the Council here and they would actually
laugh. They would have no comprehension of what that means. The best they would be able to do is to relate it to a film or a piece of music, but they'd still enjoy this process somehow. And if you can't comprehend what it means to take someone's life for nothing then there is 'no ceiling' on your behaviour - knife or gun or whatever.
A young girl got shot dead a couple of years ago because her father was involved in some gang feud. I think she was in her early teens. Bear in mind this is in the UK where guns are illegal. Rather than it being some form of wake-up call it just became an event that people connected to could wear as a badge of authenticity and live out all their stupid Hollywood fantasies and then carry on with what they were doing anyway.
Rick Reuben wrote:There you have it- his argument is that weak/ineffectual police ( or pop culture images of them ) encourage violence, and his argument is that the violent get hold of weapons because they do not fear the system.
That looks to me like honeyisfunny is saying that the police and the courts do not punish the use of weapons enough, and arguing that if a 'ceiling was put on their behavior' ( like punishing the carrying of weapons, I presume ), that would get to the root of the violence problem.
It's part of what I am saying Rick, but it's not all of it, especially the part about 'the violent getting hold of weapons'. It's more that the culture we live in breeds a total lack of understanding - or empathy as holmes put it - and with that comes a desire on people's part to just do as they please regardless of the consequences to themselves (which they assume to be nil in most cases) or more importantly to others.
I don't believe that punishing people for carrying weapons is a solution. I never said that and you're putting your own words into quote marks again as though they came from someone else. I explained what I meant by 'ceiling' above.
I do think popular culture is partially to blame in some way but it's more than just the image of the Police Force. It's more that the idea of being downtrodden and rising above, 'coming from the streets' or whatever, is the norm almost and it's seen as such a thing to aim for that kids are seeking out the 'crime and violence' part of things even when there is none, or at least no actual need for it.
Rimbaud III wrote:How much violent crime do we see in white-middle class Britain?
See, I think the answer to this is 'more than you think' - and by violent crime I mean pointless violent crime, random beatings etc. I come from a farming town called March, near Ely in Cambridgeshire. It's a Tory stronghold and by and large it's grossly middle class and predominantly white.
It is just as dangerous to walk around at night as Nottingham. For the reasons I mentioned above. Kids living out some fantasy and not giving a fuck who gets in the way of it, even when they're from privileged backgrounds. They don't need to commit violent crime for money but they do it anyway.